Build Thread The Night of The Living Gila Monster. 1978 Mercury Psyc- Clone.

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CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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Now I'm onto the "negative repercussion" phase.

The throttle blades need to be cracked significantly to get the engine enough air to breathe at idle. In its stock configuration, there was a significant hole in each throttle body below the throttle blade that allowed in air controlled by an external IAC motor. I am now using that hole as a vacuum source to feed the external vacuum reservoir, so that my PB's will work, and hopefully have some inkling of a prayer that there'll be some consistent vacuum signal to give the MAP sensor some indication of load, and lastly to tell my vacuum modulator in my 4R70w that the transmission is in high gear.

So,....that means either I keep opening up the throttle blades until enough air gets by to allow the engine to idle, or, I close them back down,...remove the blades, and drill a small hole in each them to act as an air bleed. That process will purely be trial and error.

On a carbureted car, you sometimes have to do this because opening the idle screw too far exposes the idle air transition slot, and the carb starts to add fuel because its thinking the throttle is starting to open past the point of idle...On my throttle bodies, I got no such idle air transition slot, but I am rotating the TPS sensor. Am I decreasing it's range?

I now know I can recalibrate the thing to read 0 even with the throttle cracked that far open, And commensurately tell the new WOT to recalibrate to 100%. but on the TPS sensor,........... is it truly seeing the full range of operation now that Ive eaten up probably 10-15* of TPS read-able shaft rotation?

You just should know right now that if I remove those throttle blades from those mounted throttle bodies, I'm gonna drop a throttle shaft screw into the open engine just as sure as sht.

Oh the Humanity......And they thought the Hindenburg was a spectacle.....If I drop a shaft screw into the open engine, the mental meltdown that will ensue will make the Hindenburg look like a camp fire at a girl scout weinie roast.

Maybe I'm just making a big deal over nothing,......Maybe I can just keep opening the throttle blades till I get the engine to idle....Maybe it JUST DOESNT MATTER!.....:eek:

I looked at new gauges this morning....I hate the thought of spending this much money to replace them with something else,...especially when that means I have to change out so much of what is Original Monster to do it. I aint spending stupid money on a new gauge set. The speedo has to be electronic, and that is the primary choke point in choosing something. The Black 3-3/8" units from VDO cost 180.00, and that's the cheap one. There were speedos from Autometer and a couple of other venders that were 300-400.00...for just the freaking speedo. I do not want to spend 1200.00 like I did on the red car.
 

stanglx2002

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@a91what will validate my feedback, but you should just keep opening the throttle blades until you get it to idle. Since you dont have an IAC valve this is the only way to set the desired idle RPM. Once you have the RPM desired, just recalibrate the TPS "closed throttle ADC count" under Tools. This will give the MS the values it needs.
 

RaggedGT

GonnaBeASuperMod
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Now I'm onto the "negative repercussion" phase.

The throttle blades need to be cracked significantly to get the engine enough air to breathe at idle. In its stock configuration, there was a significant hole in each throttle body below the throttle blade that allowed in air controlled by an external IAC motor. I am now using that hole as a vacuum source to feed the external vacuum reservoir, so that my PB's will work, and hopefully have some inkling of a prayer that there'll be some consistent vacuum signal to give the MAP sensor some indication of load, and lastly to tell my vacuum modulator in my 4R70w that the transmission is in high gear.

So,....that means either I keep opening up the throttle blades until enough air gets by to allow the engine to idle, or, I close them back down,...remove the blades, and drill a small hole in each them to act as an air bleed. That process will purely be trial and error.

On a carbureted car, you sometimes have to do this because opening the idle screw too far exposes the idle air transition slot, and the carb starts to add fuel because its thinking the throttle is starting to open past the point of idle...On my throttle bodies, I got no such idle air transition slot, but I am rotating the TPS sensor. Am I decreasing it's range?

I now know I can recalibrate the thing to read 0 even with the throttle cracked that far open, And commensurately tell the new WOT to recalibrate to 100%. but on the TPS sensor,........... is it truly seeing the full range of operation now that Ive eaten up probably 10-15* of TPS read-able shaft rotation?

You just should know right now that if I remove those throttle blades from those mounted throttle bodies, I'm gonna drop a throttle shaft screw into the open engine just as sure as sht.

Oh the Humanity......And they thought the Hindenburg was a spectacle.....If I drop a shaft screw into the open engine, the mental meltdown that will ensue will make the Hindenburg look like a camp fire at a girl scout weinie roast.

Maybe I'm just making a big deal over nothing,......Maybe I can just keep opening the throttle blades till I get the engine to idle....Maybe it JUST DOESNT MATTER!.....:eek:

I looked at new gauges this morning....I hate the thought of spending this much money to replace them with something else,...especially when that means I have to change out so much of what is Original Monster to do it. I aint spending stupid money on a new gauge set. The speedo has to be electronic, and that is the primary choke point in choosing something. The Black 3-3/8" units from VDO cost 180.00, and that's the cheap one. There were speedos from Autometer and a couple of other venders that were 300-400.00...for just the freaking speedo. I do not want to spend 1200.00 like I did on the red car.
Might fit in your current gauge pod area-with minimal modification
7E0BA76C-9623-4DF1-8D10-B1D2FD8CBBD6.jpeg
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
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You could do that computer screen thing all of us mspnp guys want to do. Seems inexpensive and you wouldn't have to hook a laptop to it. Could tune through the cluster.

Plus, at start up, you could have a rotating picture of a gila monster attacking its prey.

Forget what they thing id's called.... but I'm sure Steve knows. Can't even remember the thread title or the POs name.... but ... i knows you know....

Edit.... the Rasberry thing....i think....
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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Ive always loved Sonic Blue. I like that GLX green for accents, but think the car would look a little too "different" if you were to shoot the whole thing in that color. How about Laser Red? Youve always said you love fresh red paint?
Might fit in your current gauge pod area-with minimal modification View attachment 605379
Mike I think you should consider doing the LCD dash display.... it's cheap and effective
You could do that computer screen thing all of us mspnp guys want to do. Seems inexpensive and you wouldn't have to hook a laptop to it. Could tune through the cluster.

Plus, at start up, you could have a rotating picture of a gila monster attacking its prey.

Forget what they thing id's called.... but I'm sure Steve knows. Can't even remember the thread title or the POs name.... but ... i knows you know....

Edit.... the Rasberry thing....i think....
I watched the other thread intently to see if I wanted to do something like that. I have several issues with it. A race pak is just that,....A race-pack. It's too basic for what I'd want, and waayy too much money.

The Raspberry thing is too far over my head. I'm just trying to keep up with the current DFI and what will occur as a result of my modifications, much less add another computer based processor to display my engine specifics. The screen would be too hard to make it fit in my existing theme.

I called Summit bitchin about my crap gauge pod, but it's tough to piss an moan about something that sat on a shelf for almost 4 years before it ever saw one volt of current from a battery. I bought that gauge pkg in Oct 13. Granted, it didn't see any usage until Jan 17,....but even in the best scenario, I'm now complaining about that to these guys fully 16 months after the thing started.
And It only comes with a one year warranty.
Now my frame of thinking is that they know that these builds can take years to do. And certain things have to be purchased in order to build around them during that process. I needed those gauges to build the gauge pod, "Winkin", and despite the fact that I bought them years ago, the odometer still only reads 800 miles.
They're gonna have to do a little better than what they offered me yesterday.They still make this piece of crap currently.
They'll give me 15% off of what ever else I choose. The original gauge system cost 299.00 for the 6 ga. cluster, and I added a chrome trim ring that added another 89.00 to the total investment, the grand total being 390.00. To get completely compensated for that expense, taking the 15% discount into consideration, I'd have to spend over 2k on gauges to net a 390.00 discount....

Uhhh......:nono:

So with renewed vigor, I'll make another call now that I've looked at gauge pkg assortments. I think I can make a piggyback pod to set on top of the existing pod to house a 3-3/8" conventional tach, and speedo, and then repurpose the existing pod to hold 3-4 additional 2-1/16" gauges that would come in the pkg.
Something just like this:
1526475768834.png


It comes in black or this white. (I'd probably choose the black set) everything is electronic, and the only thing that I'd have to change out is my fuel sender,...mine is ford impedance, this is Stewart Warner impedance. The set retails for 364.00....If I make enough noise...maybe it'll be half that...

Maybe it'll be free.
 

stanglx2002

10 Year Member
Jul 7, 2005
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You could do that computer screen thing all of us mspnp guys want to do. Seems inexpensive and you wouldn't have to hook a laptop to it. Could tune through the cluster.

Plus, at start up, you could have a rotating picture of a gila monster attacking its prey.

Forget what they thing id's called.... but I'm sure Steve knows. Can't even remember the thread title or the POs name.... but ... i knows you know....

Edit.... the Rasberry thing....i think....
Thanks I see how much of an impression that I make around here.

I have put numerous hours into making the digital dash, and once done the nice thing about computers is you can clone it. No need to have to go through all the work I did to build it. All you would have to do is just copy over your project file and install the power supply.

The only thing left that I am working on is the power supply, which I have all the parts for except one and the shutdown process script. Then it is ready to run full time.
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Thanks I see how much of an impression that I make around here.

I have put numerous hours into making the digital dash, and once done the nice thing about computers is you can clone it. No need to have to go through all the work I did to build it. All you would have to do is just copy over your project file and install the power supply.

The only thing left that I am working on is the power supply, which I have all the parts for except one and the shutdown process script. Then it is ready to run full time.
That would make me beholding to another guy that is the only one that would know the answer to my question(s).

I bug Steve enough already.

I do think everything you’re doing is mega cool, and I’m all about the future capabilities of that system, I just cannot blend a rectangular display into any part of my curved dash, and it would have to sit more or less right where the existing housing is to be able to cover the holes already cut there for the wires.

Besides....I’ve already solved my problem....see below.
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
You gotta love Summit. All it took this morning was to ask the customer service rep to get me a supervisor. After sitting on hold for about two minutes, the 120 second wait netted me full credit towards the purchase of any other gauge set.
I didnt have to yell, I didn’t even raise my voice. The guy actually made his decision while I was still trying to make my case.
It helps when your customer status history spans 28 years, and your total purchases exceed 27,000.00. He made his decision solely on my purchase history. And this is the reason I keep telling you guys to quit buying stuff from anybody else. They are single handidly the best speed parts supplier in the us.

So,....not 15% off, after all......All 390.00 spent in 2013 is now a credit waiting on me to apply that against the purchase of a new set. And I get to keep the existing gauge set,....( he told me to throw it away).

That opens up my gauge options significantly, it’ll also keep the Monster down for another month while I fab up the enhanced version of Winkin,...but it'll be worth the wait, and give me more junk to talk about.
 

stanglx2002

10 Year Member
Jul 7, 2005
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That would make me beholding to another guy that is the only one that would know the answer to my question(s).

I bug Steve enough already.

I do think everything you’re doing is mega cool, and I’m all about the future capabilities of that system, I just cannot blend a rectangular display into any part of my curved dash, and it would have to sit more or less right where the existing housing is to be able to cover the holes already cut there for the wires.

Besides....I’ve already solved my problem....see below.
That is no problem as I just wanted to make sure you didn't discount any of your options.

Thank you for the positive feedback and look forward to getting it up and running.
 

95BlueStallion

Yo Adrian, I did it.
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I was going to say, your purchase history should have helped. That was single handedly why I moved from American Muscle to LMR. I had spent thousands there, done many hassle free returns, etc, but when I asked to return the catalytic convertors that I never used on my 2011, they refused due to being more than 6 months after the purchase date. Like you, I bought them with a plan, and didnt get around to actually using them. Now they are on my current car, and LMR gets my business. I dont deal with retailers that wont give a little here or there for long standing return customers..

Back to your car, Im starting to think you dont actually want a finished running car! I mean, then what would you do with your time??? Drive it?

You should know how happy it makes me that you are switching gauges. You should have trashed those damned things when you took them out of the red car.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
I was going to say, your purchase history should have helped. That was single handedly why I moved from American Muscle to LMR. I had spent thousands there, done many hassle free returns, etc, but when I asked to return the catalytic convertors that I never used on my 2011, they refused due to being more than 6 months after the purchase date. Like you, I bought them with a plan, and didnt get around to actually using them. Now they are on my current car, and LMR gets my business. I dont deal with retailers that wont give a little here or there.

Back to your car, Im starting to think you dont actually want a finished running car! I mean, then what would you do with your time??? Drive it?

You should know how happy it makes me that you are switching gauges. You should have trashed those damned things when you took them out of the red car.
Believe me when I tell you I know how happy you are about it. The gauges have always been a thorn in your side. It’s gonna be a challenge trying to incorporate the analog gauges into the existing gauge pod, and putting the tach and speedo on top piggyback style will add a significant obstruction to my line of sight. But I’m up to it.
 

95BlueStallion

Yo Adrian, I did it.
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I bet you can find some more Ol Bessy hide to cover a new pod if need be. I would do that over dealing with a potential obstructed line of sight.
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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Well I started the car again at lunch today. After tweaking the throttle screws another couple of turns, the car now starts and runs without me pedaling the throttle.
However,........it’s running at 9.9 AFR.
Needless to say, I didn’t allow it to run much longer than 30 seconds. Just long enough for the mechanical oil pressure gauge to confirm 80 psi at cold idle,...and I shut it back off. Again, this is still the old SD tune that it had before, which brings me to ask....If the car is gonna start and run in SD, when/where will it need a Alpha N tune instead?
And,.....it’s running fat...Why is that exactly? What has changed in the intake stream to cause a 2-3 point richer idle statistic then what it was doing before...if anything, I’d think it’d be leaner..

Is this the MAP sensor not reading things properly ya think, and if so, why is it running so nice?
 

a91what

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It is likely in a much different area of the fuel map. read--- pulling less vacuum

you will transfer over into alpha-n at around 5% tps at idle and at about 20% above 2500 rpm. basically above these percentages the map sensor will see WOT this is why the ITB tune uses a blended table, map at idle/ cruise and switches to alpha-n under acceleration.

do me a favor and send me a log of the car running even if it is only for 30 seconds
 

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