The SN65 project car

SN65 · May 26, 2005

Hi All,

Yesterday we installed the dash. Most of the issues were with the defroster ducts, but I think we have them figured out. Wayne was a madman with the pneumatic saws-all. He has things roughed in. He will be doing some fine tuning today while I continue with the interior.

Damn, am I sore today? Being bent up like a pretzel on the steel floor pans has really taken its toll. Also, my hands and arms are bruised and cut from all the contortions required to get the wiring installed under the dash. I really shouldn't complain. Wayne really has the tougher row-to-hoe. All of the filling, sanding, filling, sanding, filling and sanding really takes its toll after a while.

I just need to find a quality interior shop in the Chicago area. There are a number of shops in the area, but I want a shop that is capable of doing invisible dash modifications. And while the shops I know do good leather and upholstery work, they have no experience with the type of mods I am looking for.

It is now time to drag my tired old bones out to the shop.

Bob
Come see this WIP at
Julian's Collision Center
http://www.julianscollisioncenter.com/

monk302 · May 26, 2005

Bob,

The project looks great. Question, are you going to keep the airbags functional? Sounds like you are going to have to find a good chiropractor when you are done.

1320stang · May 26, 2005

One suggestion, buy some good dense foam from an upholstery shop. My local shop has some purple foam, about 6 inches think that's pretty dense. Get a piece about the size of a sofa cushion, shouldn't cost more than a $20 spot and it'll save your back. This stuff is so dense you can't totally compress it laying on your back, your knee on it will compress it though.

Second suggestion, If your invisible mods include cutting the factory dash to fit the classic body and make it look stock, you might want to get with the guy from Australia that put the Falcon XB dash in his '65-'66 vert. I believe he's posted on this thread, but I can't, for the life of me, remember his handle. He had to make several mods, but I think he used vinyl stretched over the dash to make it look right. We've taken some spray on texture, I think it's supposed to replicate the texture on the lower parts of the rocker panels on late model cars, on some interior pieces we were trying to replicate the factory embossed texture of the steel door panels. Sprayed it on and knocked down the peaks with a quick brush of sandpaper and sprayed them black. Looked pretty decent.

SN65 · May 27, 2005

Hi All,

Yesterday we were moving along just fine when we decided to trial fit the seats. I plugged the driver’s seat into the harness and applied power to the battery terminals and thought that would get power to the seat, but nothing happened. I still have to finish a few things as far as system grounds, etc... I am sure that everything will work just fine when I get the last of these wiring items resolved. At least I hope so.

But...

The Cobra seats are great, and I really like them, but I can't use them. I need to lower them 2" front and back and there is not enough "play" in the track areas to allow that. I could alter the cushion (remove foam, etc...) but I do not think removing 2" of foam is a good idea, even if it was possible. If you are wondering why this is an issue, the interior height of the 65 is just about 2” less than that of the 03 Cobra. I was hoping that this would be something we could resolve by modifying the seat tracks, but, as I stated above, there just is not enough room to shave 2” from the tracks.

So, I need new seats. I would like seats similar to the 03 Cobra’s with good, lateral support.

Also, I talked to Ford and their recommendation in regard to the air bag use in this car is....

If we use the air bags, we need to use the factory 3 point restraint. If we go to a 4 or 5 point harness, we should disconnect the air bags. I really wanted to use a 4 point harness tied into a rear roll bar assembly, but if I do that I will have to disconnect the air bags. THIS IS SOMETHING EVERYBODY SHOULD TAKE NOTICE OF. If you have altered the restraint to something other than the factory system, you really should disconnect the air bags. The factory restraints have a certain amount of give to them and this is factored into the air bag system. If you use a 4 or 5 point system, there will be no give and if the air bags deploy, you will be smacked in the fact with a fully deployed air bag. For the air bag system to work properly, you should contact the bag before it is fully deployed.

So, the seats and harnesses have to be addressed as a single issue. If we go to the 4 point restraint, we should get seats designed for use with a 4 point system. The people at SVT suggested using the same setup they used in the GTR concept car.

Any recommendations??? What do you all think???

Also, another wiring item I can't figure out is the use of two grey, two prong plugs in the under dash wiring harness. They are located to the far right and the far left among all the connections right at the kick panels. Any ideas???

Bob
Come see this WIP at
Julian's Collision Center
http://www.julianscollisioncenter.com/

fast64stang · May 27, 2005

would it be possible to lower the part of the floor that the seats bolt to? or is that just not probable at all.

SN65 · May 27, 2005

fast64stang said:
would it be possible to lower the part of the floor that the seats bolt to? or is that just not probable at all.

sorry, lowering the floor is not possible. Even if we had not finished the chassis, lowering the pan 2" would not work very well with the clearance issues we currently face.

Nice try though.

Bob
Come see this WIP at
Julian's Collision Center
http://www.julianscollisioncenter.com/

68rustang · May 27, 2005

SN65 said:
sorry, lowering the floor is not possible. Even if we had not finished the chassis, lowering the pan 2" would not work very well with the clearance issues we currently face.

What about using generic nonpower tracks from someone like Summit? Are you sure the seats are lowered all they way down? My 94 has power height adjustment, maybe they would fit if you power them all the way down first.

reenmachine · May 27, 2005

Regarding the air bag thing, yes, that's why there are no air bags in race cars. First, you'd crash your beloved car, then (milliseconds later), you'd get a Mike Tyson punch to the face to rub it in!

I kind of like Ford's idea about the seats. If you have to deviate from your bone-stock motif, it would ease the blow a bit to use something seen in a high-end Ford factory promo car.

Good luck with the wiring -- that's the crux of the project IMO, at least when doing a traditional 4.6 swap. You either have to use every last bit of that harness or none of it at all.

RogerC62 · May 27, 2005

Also, another wiring item I can't figure out is the use of two grey, two prong plugs in the under dash wiring harness. They are located to the far right and the far left among all the connections right at the kick panels. Any ideas???

Just a guess but, speaker connections? I remember my old 79 had gray 2 prong plugs for speakers. Without looking at the harness, hard telling. I'd try and get a look at a manual at a dealer. Just about everything else is grouped in a larger connector. Afterthought, maybe courtesy lights? I'm just guessing here.

1320stang · May 27, 2005

I was thinking the same thing as RacerX, either speaker wires (should be easy to tell by their color), or courtesy lights, which would be easy to check with the dome light.

Although you got on here after SuperDave left, I could quote him by saying, "RTFM!!!" or, read the Ford manual. He was/is a big proponent of owning a Ford manual for your vehicle as opposed to a Chiltons manual.

I have factory manuals for two of my vehicles, bought off of Ebay for a song.

reenmachine · May 27, 2005

I agree about the manual. It's absolutely a must-have, especially with the complexity of the newer cars. I have the 1999 and 2000 Mustang manuals on CD, and the '04 on the way as I'm putting an '04 Cobra drivetrain in a '67 next. They're expensive, but worth every last penny.

SN65 · May 27, 2005

Hi all,

Here is a photo of the connector in question. It is the grey one in the upper right. There is one of these on both sides of the car.

Bob
Come see this WIP at
Julian's Collision Center
http://www.julianscollisioncenter.com/

68rustang · May 27, 2005

I parted out a 95GT a few months ago, I seem to remember those being for the lighted vanity mirrors in the visors. I could be wrong because I wasn't paying much attention to them during teardown. I will check my parts when i get home.

MO351 · May 27, 2005

Power side view mirrors??

R.A.T.M. · May 27, 2005

Are you guys sure that isn't for the Airbags? I remember having to use somthing like that to reset the airbag computer.

burg65 · May 27, 2005

R.A.T.M. said:
Are you guys sure that isn't for the Airbags? I remember having to use somthing like that to reset the airbag computer.

restraint and air bag related connections are most always yellow, my guess would be if they are grey, they are for speakers, but then again most all of the connections on my mountaineer are grey

SadbutTrue · May 28, 2005

i would say disconnect the air bags in that case. since its almost a given that some of the details (not just the give of the seatbelt, but I'm sure they factored the angle of the seatbelt, the exact position of the bag relative to the passenger, etc, all of which changed in the swap) that were put into the air bag deployment - seat belt give calculations were thrown off by this whole swap, i would just go to a 4 point restraint and be done. Just MHO

R.A.T.M. · May 28, 2005

The connector that I have on the passenger side of the dash is grey and has two metal connections in it that you jump together to clear the Airbag computer. When not in use it is just hanging there. Still not saying that is what you are looking at, but that is what it reminds me of from looking at the picture.

burg65 said:
restraint and air bag related connections are most always yellow, my guess would be if they are grey, they are for speakers, but then again most all of the connections on my mountaineer are grey

xj220 · May 28, 2005

I would say remove the airbags as well. Those things are touchy and can even be dangerous. If the dimensions have changed any it could cause serious damage to driver and passenger.

Jester67 · May 28, 2005

SadbutTrue said:
i would say disconnect the air bags in that case. since its almost a given that some of the details (not just the give of the seatbelt, but I'm sure they factored the angle of the seatbelt, the exact position of the bag relative to the passenger, etc, all of which changed in the swap) that were put into the air bag deployment - seat belt give calculations were thrown off by this whole swap, i would just go to a 4 point restraint and be done. Just MHO

I agree and with the top 2” lower there is less volume of space for the bag to deploy into.The windshield is also a big component of the airbag system and that has changed as well

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