Vortech V1 vs Ls1?

Three50won · May 4, 2012

Well it seems that most LS1 guys don't really know how to drive their cars. I was running 14.1's in my N/A bolt on 03 GT a few years back and I beat 2 different LS1 powered Camaros and an LT1 powered Camaro at the track. Needless to say I felt pretty good about myself that night. But on the real, they were just crappy drivers. They all had manual trans cars and not one of them knew how to launch and/or shift properly. Meanwhile my launch and shift was consistent...and my times were consistent also.

Still tho, I don't think these guys are in the 12s. At 107 you should be low 13 high 12 (I would think). At 112 I would think closer to mid 12s. Based on the mods the OP listed I don't think those speeds/times are possible. The combos are capable...but they both would need really good tires and better than OEM suspension work to support their set up IMO.

Gearbanger 101 · May 4, 2012

Wow, LS1's get more powerful everytime someone tell the story.

Everybody knows a guy, that knows a guy that's done it, but I can count on one hand with fingers to spare the number of LS1 powered FBodies I've seen dyno over 300rwhp....and how stock they were is still debatable.

The more realistic ones are putting out anywhere from 270-280rwhp depending on the year. I've seen many dyno in the low 260's....so there's no way that 300rwhp stock LS1's are common.

And 112-113mph out of mild bolt on LS1's?!? C'mon....who are we kidding here. I didn't even trap that with my blown Cougar and I made over 410hp/465tq at the crank and only outweighed them by a couple of hundred pounds.

The tales get taller and taller.

Winters98GT · May 4, 2012

Gearbanger 101 said:
The tales get taller and taller.

And the guys that have no clue and haven't done it become more common and more common.

I've probably seen a 1000-2000(not exaggerating LS dyno's). I'll watch another 40 cars tomorrow at my buddies dyno day. I have 3 of the biggest LS shops within 20 miles of my house, and hold the C6 1/4 record. I know a thing or two about what these cars put down, Brian. We dynoed my friends 2000SS with 45-100 miles on the odometer in 2000 on 3 dynos, and it put down over 300rwhp on every dyno.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-general/2447068-what-does-a-bone-stock-m6-ls1-dyno-dynojet.html

I

slayerripkdc · May 4, 2012

Winters98GT said:
And the guys that have no clue and haven't done it become more common and more common.

I've probably seen a 1000-2000(not exaggerating LS dyno's). I'll watch another 40 cars tomorrow at my buddies dyno day. I have 3 of the biggest LS shops within 20 miles of my house, and hold the C6 1/4 record. I know a thing or two about what these cars put down, Brian. We dynoed my friends 2000SS with 45-100 miles on the odometer in 2000 on 3 dynos, and it put down over 300rwhp on every dyno.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-general/2447068-what-does-a-bone-stock-m6-ls1-dyno-dynojet.html

I

No way!!! I know that girl who owns that red GTO! She is from NY and her license plate reads "her LS1"! I raced her with my 95 vert! What a small world.

Three50won · May 4, 2012

Gearbanger 101 said:
Wow, LS1's get more powerful everytime someone tell the story.

Everybody knows a guy, that knows a guy that's done it, but I can count on one hand with fingers to spare the number of LS1 powered FBodies I've seen dyno over 300rwhp....and how stock they were is still debatable.

The more realistic ones are putting out anywhere from 270-280rwhp depending on the year. I've seen many dyno in the low 260's....so there's no way that 300rwhp stock LS1's are common.

And 112-113mph out of mild bolt on LS1's?!? C'mon....who are we kidding here. I didn't even trap that with my blown Cougar and I made over 410hp/465tq at the crank and only outweighed them by a couple of hundred pounds.

The tales get taller and taller.

Agreed. Lets say Chevy was super conservative and under-rated their figures by 20 hp. That means the Camaro SS LS1 really made 340 hp. Minus 15% drive train losses through a manual trans you get 289 RWHP. That's a bone stock car. AND that's a lot of ifs. Even at that power level the pro drivers tested these cars brand new and were getting 13.6 at around 102 mph on the top model F-Bodies. Some of the special edition packages (SLP, Firehawk, anniversary, etc...) were doing 13.2 to 13.3. That is with a pro driver. So you're telling me that bolt-ons are gonna give your average run of the mill LS1 a full second and a good 10 mph in the quart??!! Next you'll be telling me that bone stock Foxes are running 12's with less than $2,000 and little to no time spent working on it...in street trim. Now if the idea of a bolt-on includes heads, cam, and intake then somebody needs to explain the meaning of bolt-on to me.

slayerripkdc · May 4, 2012

Three50won said:
Agreed. Lets say Chevy was super conservative and under-rated their figures by 20 hp. That means the Camaro SS LS1 really made 340 hp. Minus 15% drive train losses through a manual trans you get 289 RWHP. That's a bone stock car. AND that's a lot of ifs. Even at that power level the pro drivers tested these cars brand new and were getting 13.6 at around 102 mph on the top model F-Bodies. Some of the special edition packages (SLP, Firehawk, anniversary, etc...) were doing 13.2 to 13.3. That is with a pro driver. So you're telling me that bolt-ons are gonna give your average run of the mill LS1 a full second and a good 10 mph in the quart??!! Next you'll be telling me that bone stock Foxes are running 12's with less than $2,000 and little to no time spent working on it...in street trim. Now if the idea of a bolt-on includes heads, cam, and intake then somebody needs to explain the meaning of bolt-on to me.

Professional drivers also tested the 03-04 Cobras an ran mid 13.s. They also tested the 5.0 fox bodies and ran mid 15's. So you cannot go by that. Arent you a chevy guy??? lol. The Ls1 is very underrated from the factory! You need to remember those motors have a mean top end!

Winters98GT · May 4, 2012

Three50won said:
Agreed. Lets say Chevy was super conservative and under-rated their figures by 20 hp. That means the Camaro SS LS1 really made 340 hp. Minus 15% drive train losses through a manual trans you get 289 RWHP. That's a bone stock car. AND that's a lot of ifs. Even at that power level the pro drivers tested these cars brand new and were getting 13.6 at around 102 mph on the top model F-Bodies. Some of the special edition packages (SLP, Firehawk, anniversary, etc...) were doing 13.2 to 13.3. That is with a pro driver. So you're telling me that bolt-ons are gonna give your average run of the mill LS1 a full second and a good 10 mph in the quart??!! Next you'll be telling me that bone stock Foxes are running 12's with less than $2,000 and little to no time spent working on it...in street trim. Now if the idea of a bolt-on includes heads, cam, and intake then somebody needs to explain the meaning of bolt-on to me.

Wow, I really just can't help you, buddy. Think the LS1 in the Corvette was any different than the Fbody cars? It was rated at 345hp, same motor that went in the camaro, Ta. Again, slightly under rated. Ever heard of a car called the terminator? Slightly under rated. Different LS1's got a slightly different cam profile, not a big deal on the dyno. The LS6 intake helped out when cars saw exhaust. 345-360rwhp is common for these cars with headers, lid, pulley, catback. Stock heads and cam.

Mods for me to go 11's in an Fbody. SLP headers, Y pipe, SLP underdrive crank pulley, lid, borla catback, LS6 intake(stock for any 2001+cars), 4.10 gears, and 26x10.50 ET streets. 10+years ago. Here is the old pic. And yes, gears, and bolt ons with an extra 50+hp will get you another 10mph when you trap low 100's. Been there, done it. Period.

View attachment 150297

fiveohwblow · May 5, 2012

Micro pix are micro

sneaky98gt · May 5, 2012

Just out of curiosity, what are you guys thinking the supercharged 4.6 is going to run?

Deleted member 38176 · May 5, 2012

Anyone who questions the true power of the almighty LS1 is just a fool! Let us not forget.....

Winters98GT · May 5, 2012

fiveohwblow said:
Micro pix are micro

Back to the wheel we should go, then I'll drop kick you in the nuts.

I'd rather here about Bill's new epic journey or hoopty anyways.

fiveohwblow · May 5, 2012

Winters98GT said:
Back to the wheel we should go, then I'll drop kick you in the nuts.

I'd rather here about Bill's new epic journey or hoopty anyways.

I had to bust your balls!

Winters98GT · May 5, 2012

4.6 talk just isn't what it used to be.

Gearbanger 101 · May 5, 2012

Winters98GT said:
And the guys that have no clue and haven't done it become more common and more common.

Well I guess we have a little different definition of a “ simple bolt-on car" here. I’ve always thought of them as basic, non evasive, simple mods….but you’re taking it literally. Like…a turbo or nitrous is a “bolt on mod” because technically, you fasten part of it to the car on with bolts. . For perspective sake, I don’t consider an engine swapped, LS6 Head/intake equipped, cammed, weight reduced FBody, with Ram-Air, Lid, throttle body, Full exhaust and a host of ignition, hardware and drive train upgrades…including a Monster Level 3 clutch, spinning an aluminum drive shaft and a 9” rear end stocked with 4.11 gears a “basic bolt-on” car.

That’s pretty near everything you’re gonna throw at an LS1 without diving into the power adders and not even close to basic. Using that logic, a 351W swapped 5.8L with Z304 heads, cam and all the bolt on's, including ignition, fuel system and drivetrain mods is "just a basic Mustang with a couple of parts"

You’re right about people not having a clue….as in not having a clue what must be going through the heads of some of these LSX owners that would drop a Christmas List of parts into their car like this and still fluff them off as basically stock?!?

Winters98GT · May 5, 2012

Stock heads, stock cam, stock supsension Brian. No power adders, etc. The way the car was daily driven, in the picture with me in it. Car made 350-360rwhp, just the mods I listed. If you take that as Nitrous, etc or extreme setup, then I don't know what to say. Wasn't extreme to me. Went 11.50's with a small MTI cam in it after that.

Gearbanger 101 · May 5, 2012

Winters98GT said:
Stock heads, stock cam, stock supsension Brian. No power adders, etc. The way the car was daily driven, in the picture with me in it. Car made 350-360rwhp, just the mods I listed. If you take that as Nitrous, etc or extreme setup, then I don't know what to say. Wasn't extreme to me. Went 11.50's with a small MTI cam in it after that.

Sorry, my mistake....the mods I listed above were of another car in that video cluster....that incidentally ran almost identical times that you claim the silver one ran nearly stock....with everything listed above...and made an additional 50-60rwhp to boot.

Three50won · May 5, 2012

Winters98GT said:
Wow, I really just can't help you, buddy. Think the LS1 in the Corvette was any different than the Fbody cars? It was rated at 345hp, same motor that went in the camaro, Ta. Again, slightly under rated. Ever heard of a car called the terminator? Slightly under rated. Different LS1's got a slightly different cam profile, not a big deal on the dyno. The LS6 intake helped out when cars saw exhaust. 345-360rwhp is common for these cars with headers, lid, pulley, catback. Stock heads and cam.

Mods for me to go 11's in an Fbody. SLP headers, Y pipe, SLP underdrive crank pulley, lid, borla catback, LS6 intake(stock for any 2001+cars), 4.10 gears, and 26x10.50 ET streets. 10+years ago. Here is the old pic. And yes, gears, and bolt ons with an extra 50+hp will get you another 10mph when you trap low 100's. Been there, done it. Period.

View attachment 150290

Winters, regardless of the ratings the cars ran specific times. And by pro drivers I mean pro drivers. Drivers with championships under their belts. And it is a known fact that the LS1 engines in the Corvette had different tweaks to it...whether it was a different cam profile or intake manifold, they had better engines. I mean why would Chevy put the same exact Corvette engine in a Camaro? Even now the Corvettes have slightly more hp. I ran these cars (Camaros) at the track. I saw what they can do on multiple occasions. And they were nowhere near the 12s...I ran them all day and I never broke into the 13's. Maybe with some ET streets it woulda been a different story. LS1 guys are always talking their engines up. And I have yet to see one do what people claim. Of course there are the few exceptions that get posted on YouTube...but still this is not representative of the majority of LS1s out there. Even if you found 100 videos that would still not represent the majority of them who have yet to break 13's. Heck I've seen the new SS Camaros run mid 14's. So there are some cases where a good driver has a good combo and can accomplish these feats. But chances are that your average dude in an average "bolt-on" 2001 Camaro with his baseball cap on backwards isn't doing a 12.

Gearbanger 101 · May 5, 2012

I have to honestly say....I've never seen a stock LS1 powered C5 Corvette break into the 12's. Close....but not quite.

Three50won said:
Heck I've seen the new SS Camaros run mid 14's. So there are some cases where a good driver has a good combo and can accomplish these feats. But chances are that your average dude in an average "bolt-on" 2001 Camaro with his baseball cap on backwards isn't doing a 12.

While this logic may be true.....it can also be applied to many Mustang owners as well.

Three50won · May 5, 2012

slayerripkdc said:
Professional drivers also tested the 03-04 Cobras an ran mid 13.s. They also tested the 5.0 fox bodies and ran mid 15's. So you cannot go by that. Arent you a chevy guy??? lol. The Ls1 is very underrated from the factory! You need to remember those motors have a mean top end!

Termi's were tested and ran mid 12's. And the fastest Fox tested ran a low 14 from my research. I've seen Foxes at the track run high 14's with bolt-on...these were notch back cars.

Chevy guy?? Hahaha, these days I don't know which side of the fence I'm on. Even my neighbors question why I have a Camaro and 2 Mustangs. I'm as confused as it gets, haha!! But I know enough to tell that Chevy guys talk a lot of BS and Ford guys talk just as much BS. Every LS1 Camaro owner has some story about how they had their engine replaced with a Corvette engine. Yet their car miraculously puts out 500 hp. Ask them how they know and they'll say "oh I can tell...". Meanwhile the salesman at the dealership is thinking to himself "the sucker fell for it". And a lot of Mustang owners are almost as bad. They can't lie and say they have a Cobra motor because you can pop the hood and tell they're lying. But they will regale you of heroic stories of how their NA PI car beats Vettes, Vipers, a Gallardo, and GTRs all day...along with running low 13's (high 12's on Et's).

Three50won · May 5, 2012

Nightfire said:
Anyone who questions the true power of the almighty LS1 is just a fool! Let us not forget.....

Hahahaha...it's kinda funny how I'm more of a Chevy (Camaro) guy than anyone else and I'm talking more trash about the LS1 than the Mustang guys are. What's the world coming to?!

Vortech V1 vs Ls1?

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