WAR TIME

iskwezm said:

So take your calculations and figure it out and prove people wrong.

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That is exactly what I did. You claimed:

iskwezm said:

Essentially,when you run multiple speakers,you getting the equal amount of cone surface area,so 4 8"= 32" of cone,thats why people say they hit harder then 2 12"s and so on.

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So I said:

lgndracer said:

The area of an 8 is 50.24 sq inches, so four of them totals 200.96 sq inches. The area of a 12" is 113.04 sq inches, so two of them are 226.08 sq inches. So two 12" woofers still have more surface area than 4 8".

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Bass is all about moving air, and the larger surface area will move more air.
So with all things equal, two 12" woofers have more surface area, and the potential to "hit" harder than four 8".

As for me using a big fancy name, are you talking about Thiele-Small parameters? How is that big and fancy? Not mentioning them is saying the actual specs of the speaker mean nothing. Would you put a cam in your car with out knowing the lift and duration? Are "lift" and "duration" big fancy terms? Then if you did just "thow" a cam in your engine, and it didn't work with the rest of your motor combo say "that Crane model XXXX cam is a POS, I lost power compared to the stock cam"?

Then why would you say that one subwoofer can out perform another without using the things like the FS, QTS and VAS of the speaker to make sure you are using it correctly?

Car Audio has a problem in general with mis-information. Most of that has to do with there are not many true specialists any more. You can not expect the Big Box retailers to have knowledgable salespeople on their floors when Video and Home Audio/Surround is where the demand is, so the people they do have perpetuate this mis-information. This mis-information gets passed around everywhere including the web. My whole point is people should do some research about how speakers work, the same as you would if you were going to build an engine yourself.

I have been in the industry for about 8 years from installing to repping,R&D and working on "the worlds loudest stereo" back inthe late 90's. The "big words" being thrown around mean nothing to 80% of the poeple here.All they know is a woofer makes bass and want a little help.Try using your logic on some real audio forums and see if you can hold your own and back up what you say.Yes, the calculations are correct and you cant deny math, but somethings are better left to being proven by physical means, such as running multiple speakers and testing it instead of saying "on paper it wont do it".I have ran everything from1 10",4 10",2 12",3 12",4 12" and even did a van with 18 12" subs.
So IMO, unless you have done it,you really dont know.

The purpose of a forum is to educate, and be able to back up claims with factual data, whether is be about audio or anything else. So if you think some of the people here have no clue what I am talking about, the absolute more reason to bring these things up so people can be educated.

What good would it be to just spout out "4:10 gears are the best" without knowing the exact situation, as well as the positives and negatives of a choice. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" For example, the lower you design the 3 db downpoint of an enclosure/speaker system, two things happen. First, your speaker will play to lower frequencies louder, but you will also be reducing the power handeling of the system.

So my point is "Educate, don't Dictate".

You are also making a mighty big assumtion that you have been in the Audio industry longer, and are more knowlegable then anyone on this subject. Not saying that you don't know more than I, just making a point. No matter what the subject is, I always know there are people who have been doing it longer, or can do it better than I.

Also, eight years in the audio industry is not really that long when you are in it as a career.

lgndracer said:

The purpose of a forum is to educate, and be able to back up claims with factual data, whether is be about audio or anything else. So if you think some of the people here have no clue what I am talking about, the absolute more reason to bring these things up so people can be educated.

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Right,so why confuse people with too much information????

So my point is "Educate, don't Dictate"

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Werent you dictating how to properly measure the surface area and correcting what you think is wrong information?

You are also making a mighty big assumtion that you have been in the Audio industry longer, and are more knowlegable then anyone on this subject

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It wasnt a assumption, I know how long and what i've done.

Not saying that you don't know more than I, just making a point. No matter what the subject is, I always know there are people who have been doing it longer, or can do it better than I.

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I dont claim to know it all because I dont,but if i do know something, i will give my opinion and people in this forum know i dont go around correcting people to make them feel dumb or make me look like a know it all.

Also, eight years in the audio industry is not really that long when you are in it as a career

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. Never said it was a carrer,YOU assumed that,it was someting i fell into after many years as a master tech and also doing R&D for Ford Audio.

So are you done puffing your chest out?????

bynummustang said:

Isk: you just made his chest about as flat as my 3rd grade girlfriend.


Now how about info on the T-4 SoundStream Sub? Tarantuala series?

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So what kind of amp are you going to use???Your gonna run 3 10" dual 1 ohm VC right?Your gonna have to do some crazy parrallel/series wiring to get a usuable load on the amp.According to specs your gonna need 5.1 cu ft (1.7 each)and they recommend a ported enclosure with a 4X11.25 port.Do you have room for that?

bynummustang said:

The amp is yet to be determined. I do believe I'll have the room. Just make the box deep. I'm most likely going to run 2 amps, one powering 2 of the subs and one powering the 3rd sub and the 2 6x8s in the back. I currently have a MA Audio Mono-block amp at 1000 watts. I'm not sure if i'm going to be able to use that, or just sell it.

One the other hand, Depending on how monsterous these subs are, I might only run 2 of them in my mustang, and run the other sub in my civic.

I'm still waiting to hear them to decide on box building, and placement.

Have you heard them in person?

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I havent heard them,but they look like a SPL sub and will need the proper box and amp to get the most from it.

I did just install some of the lower line subs 10EX i think,they were ok but they went in a 05 F150 with absolutely no airspace, but in a proper box,they would have been alot better

iskwezm said:

Right,so why confuse people with too much information????

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I didn't really give any info, but explained what to go and search for if you want to wanted to learn about how this stuff really works. Also, how can you have "too much information" so you can make an educated desicion?

iskwezm said:

Werent you dictating how to properly measure the surface area and correcting what you think is wrong information?

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If I were dictating, I would have been saying "do it this way, because", and not explaining why. I mearly said the math was incorrect, which your comment above insinuates that your math WAS correct. Are you saying that 4 8" = 32 and 2 12" only equal 24?

iskwezm said:

Never said it was a carrer,YOU assumed that,it was someting i fell into after many years as a master tech and also doing R&D for Ford Audio.

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iskwezm said:

I have been in the industry for about 8 years from installing to repping,R&D and working on "the worlds loudest stereo"

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You are correct, and I did make the mistake of assuming you were doing this as a career. When you said you were in the industry, had been an installer at a shop, worked for an independant manufactures rep firm, had worked for a audio manufactuer as an R&D engineer, and you being in your early thirties I am sure you can see how I assumed this. That is quite a few jobs in an industry that is not your actual profession. You must have an amazing amount of free time from your actual career. Again, I apologize for the assumtion.

iskwezm said:

So are you done puffing your chest out?????

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I am beginning to think you do not like to debate, you seem to be taking things personal. If I came across as "attacking" you, I again apologize. I am just pointing out inaccuracies, and asking to back up what is said with fact. Without fact, "tech" type forums on the net are just wasted bandwidth.


I will recap the point I have been trying to make the whole time, for which you can agree or not, but I sense you are beginning to take this personal (which I did not intend), so then we can put this to an end.

The origanal question was "what is the best woofer". My point is no one can answer that without much more info, just as you can not answer which cam is the best without much more info. If you were to build twenty sub enclosures, varying in size, and some being sealed while others are ported with verying port diameter and length, the same woofer will respond dramatically different in each. So if a person were to throw a brand "A" 10" sub in an enclosure that happend to work failry well, he could easily swap it with a brand "B" woofer and have it perform terribly. So is woofer B a bad woofer, or a P.O.S? No. It was installed in an enclosure that did not work for it. That is why you should understand the basic Thiele-Small Parameters, so you can cut through experimenting with 15 bad enclosures before you find the one that suits you for the music you listen to, and the amount of power you have. It is this basic mis-understanding to why you here people say that one woofer "sucks" and a different one "hits".