Help! 78 II has no power to any electrical except headlights and taillights and hazards.

[LILCBRA]

Yeah I have all my lights and signals and everything. I guess that The NSS is probably the issue then because my solenoid does not actuate when cranking. I can do a little mechanical work but electrical is totally out of my realm of experience and knowledge, when you say jumper the cables do you mean just strip both of them and tie them together? I agree if this does fix the problem just to leave it bypassed because a new switch is like $67 lol.

Basically, yes. But to begin with, if you have a piece of wire laying around, you could somehow jump them from one pin to the other while it's disconnected while someone engages the key.That way you're not needlessly damaging the harness. It also might not be a bad idea to check for current at either of the 2 pins to ensure there are no shorts or breaks in the circuit - that would essentially act the same as the switch not closing and not allowing power to pass to where it needs to go.

 

[JackH]

Basically, yes. But to begin with, if you have a piece of wire laying around, you could somehow jump them from one pin to the other while it's disconnected while someone engages the key.That way you're not needlessly damaging the harness. It also might not be a bad idea to check for current at either of the 2 pins to ensure there are no shorts or breaks in the circuit - that would essentially act the same as the switch not closing and not allowing power to pass to where it needs to go.

Ok, cool. Of course the one day out of the year it decides to rain here is today so i'll get under the car tomorrow and do all of those steps. Thanks a bunch

 

[extra_stout]

At this point the no crank is the issue, right?
Solenoid jumping will turn engine over, right?

the issue should lie with ignition switch or neutral safety


this seems low = high resistance in one or the other?

Did ya try cranking in neutral?
How long has this car sat before your purchase?


The only ones for no crank are solenoid and ignition switch

oh and check the engine block to ground strap.

I think my friend from Hawaii has it: the 4.09 V seems to be a symptom of the issue. In my 74 car there is a resistor to reduce the voltage at the coil to somewhere around 8-10V (thats before durspark was introduced), thats the only wire that doesn't have 12V...

One question how did you manage to get all other things like lights working? Did you do actually something or was it self healing?
I would look closely to the ignition switch: if the car sat that long and there was also moisture inside the car, it could be that the moving parts in the ignition switch are "frozen"... Then some WD40 or something that is a lube could be helpful to get it working...
BUT it could also be an electrical issue like a defect on the wiring or inside of the switch...

Is the car manual or auto-transmission? I have a manual car and I bridged the neutral safety switch permanently, because I'm used to drive manual and all my other manual cars don't have a neutral safety switch from factory.

 

[JackH]

I think my friend from Hawaii has it: the 4.09 V seems to be a symptom of the issue. In my 74 car there is a resistor to reduce the voltage at the coil to somewhere around 8-10V (thats before durspark was introduced), thats the only wire that doesn't have 12V...

One question how did you manage to get all other things like lights working? Did you do actually something or was it self healing?
I would look closely to the ignition switch: if the car sat that long and there was also moisture inside the car, it could be that the moving parts in the ignition switch are "frozen"... Then some WD40 or something that is a lube could be helpful to get it working...
BUT it could also be an electrical issue like a defect on the wiring or inside of the switch...

Is the car manual or auto-transmission? I have a manual car and I bridged the neutral safety switch permanently, because I'm used to drive manual and all my other manual cars don't have a neutral safety switch from factory.

The ignition switch is a brand new part I replaced, and the connector to it was getting 12V so I think it's ok. There were flash floods so I can't do the neutral safety switch for a couple days unfortunately but i'm nearly certain that it is the problem because the starter solenoid doesn't actuate from the key but that weird carb solenoid actuates when I crank so I know the ignition switch is ok because it reacts to me cranking the car. I also know it's not a faulty solenoid because it's brand new and also it actuates when jumped from the battery. I'll update when I can bypass the NSS. I appreciate the advice. Also, I got the other stuff working by replacing the ignition switch and I stripped the end of the headlight circuit wire and put a new shrink wrap terminal on it and put it on the battery side of the solenoid.

Thanks,
Jack H

 

[JackH]

Update!! I got the car to now crank over from the key. I'll attach a photo, but basically a rat must've chewed through the NSS wires on the trans tunnel side so i never saw the damage until I removed it through the floorboard. Corrected the wires, plugged it back in and boom it cranked. This has now allowed me to realize I am getting no spark . I checked the (brand new) ignition coil and I was getting like .5 volts both out of the wire that goes to the distributor and from the nipple of the coil itself. I checked the wiring diagrams and it seems like the coil goes to the ignition switch through a ballast resistor correct? Since both the coil and the ignition switch are brand new i am thinking the ballast resistor is bad causing weak/no spark. Is this possible? also these two wires seem like they may be important and are unplugged with seemingly no connector to go to so could that be it? If one of you guys could check your mustang and see if those wire hook up to each other that may be the/another issue. Also, is the one circled in red the ballast resistor for the coil?

At least she cranks from the key now
Thanks,
Jack H

 

[Noobz347]

It's possible but do you see any charring on the ballast resistor?

If not, I would re-engage the wiring and ensure that it is setup correctly. It's not complicated but it can def be done wrong.

Full voltage going to the coil should come off a key in [start] position. In key [On] position, the coil should only be getting power through the resistor.


--also--

You can easily check the value of the resistor with a multi-meter to determine if they're good.

 

[JackH]

It's possible but do you see any charring on the ballast resistor?

If not, I would re-engage the wiring and ensure that it is setup correctly. It's not complicated but it can def be done wrong.

Full voltage going to the coil should come off a key in [start] position. In key [On] position, the coil should only be getting power through the resistor.


--also--

You can easily check the value of the resistor with a multi-meter to determine if they're good.

Went back out to the car and checked...in the on position, I'm getting 8 volts at the coil and when cranking I am getting around 10 volts. With that being said, the output of the ignition coil is still only .71 volts

 

[Noobz347]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2HT1oGl990

 

[LILCBRA]

Good find on the bad wire!

I'm going to be going from memory since I can't get outside to my car - but I believe the heavy gage yellow wire you show in the pic labeled "Random Wire 1" is a full 12v with a fusible link. I believe that is the wire I was referring to in one of my earlier posts. That being said, wiring from my car probably won't be of much help as I've done quite a bit of modifications to my existing wiring to add electric fans, a heated O2 sensor for my AF gauge, upgrading to a 3G alternator, and an MSD ignition among other things that I may have done that I don't remember right now. But that yellow wire, given the size and the existence of the fusible link, should be 12v hot with at least the ignition switch in the ON position.

I remember the wire you have in the pic labeled "Random Wire 2" but I don't remember it having a connection at all - but then again it's been >20 years since I've torn my car apart to rebuild it to it's current state, it could have gone to SOMETHING that I don't have anymore.

As for your ignition coil, from what I remember from >20 years ago, it looks right. I'm pretty sure that one of those green wires triggers the tach and I think the other one runs from the pickup on the distributor. The red one, I believe, is supposed to be around 12v to power the coil that appears to run through the ignition switch. If you have your Haynes manual yet, it's on page 303-304. The second red wire runs through that capacitor labeled "Radio Ignition Interference Capacitor" - so that thing really doesn't matter much as far as getting it running. Let me know if you DON"T have that manual yet and I'll snap a couple more pics if you need them.

 

[LILCBRA]

Sorry, I guess I never answered your question about the resistor..... I'd find it unlikely that it's bad. The only way to truly know is to locate it and test it with a meter, otherwise chase the wire to each end and run the leads of the meter to those ends to test for resistance. Sorry I'm not much more help than that.

 

[Noobz347]

Sorry, I guess I never answered your question about the resistor..... I'd find it unlikely that it's bad. The only way to truly know is to locate it and test it with a meter, otherwise chase the wire to each end and run the leads of the meter to those ends to test for resistance. Sorry I'm not much more help than that.

It sounds like his resistor is good, judging from the other posts/tests.

He's got a voltage drop going [to] the coil that is affecting both sides (high and low).

It would be good to figure out where that drop is coming from. I suspect either corrosion at the connectors or deteriorated wire. It could even be on the ground side.

The video above should rule out a faulty or shorted coil.

 

[JackH]

It sounds like his resistor is good, judging from the other posts/tests.

He's got a voltage drop going [to] the coil that is affecting both sides (high and low).

It would be good to figure out where that drop is coming from. I suspect either corrosion at the connectors or deteriorated wire. It could even be on the ground side.

The video above should rule out a faulty or shorted coil.

ill check the wires leading up to the coil cap. There was sparking coming from the cap when i wiggled the wire so it may not be seating correctly. A new one is 10.99 at autozone. We will see, thanks.

 

[JackH]

ill check the wires leading up to the coil cap. There was sparking coming from the cap when i wiggled the wire so it may not be seating correctly. A new one is 10.99 at autozone. We will see, thanks.

So I checked and the wire itself is giving 8-10 volts...I traced the wire back to the fuse box is there any way to further test the wire? I'm not sure where I can troubleshoot further and im kind of running out of time to fix the car

 

[LILCBRA]

So it sounds to me like you're getting power but not a signal to fire. It could be the duraspark module or the magnetic pickup as long as everything else is good (grounds, intact wiring, etc.). Iirc you said you replaced the module, it might not be a bad idea to do a search on testing the magnetic pickup and see if it works.

 

[JackH]

So it sounds to me like you're getting power but not a signal to fire. It could be the duraspark module or the magnetic pickup as long as everything else is good (grounds, intact wiring, etc.). Iirc you said you replaced the module, it might not be a bad idea to do a search on testing the magnetic pickup/hall effect sensor and see if it works.

I'm only getting .71 volts out of the coil though? It seems like voltage at the coil might be the issue to me. Is there a way to test if the condenser on the side of the ignition coil bad?

 

[LILCBRA]

If you mean the piece you have circled in your "ignition coil" picture, that is just a capacitor as I mentioned previously. It should have no bearing on getting the car running, only suppression for a clear radio signal.

 

[extra_stout]

the (brand new) ignition coil

Sometimes you get new parts that are NOT working correctly, even if they are new. You could switch back to the old coil...
And I like the idea from noobz: checking ignition coil (perhaps old and new) like described in the video...
And another question: why are you sure you do not get spark? did you pull a plug and did you hold it against the engine block to confirm that there is no spark when cranking? or is this just an assumption?

 

[LILCBRA]

To clarify, this is how the system works. Imagine the switch that they're using in the video being the magnetic pickup or, in the case of an older engine, the points in the distributor. As you can see, the capacitor is downstream of current flow and essentially guides the extra current back into the system. In the case of your car it's directing back to ground which is why it's mounted to the body. So if your coil is new and assumed good but not firing, or if you tested your coil as was illustrated in Noobz's post and verified it's good, it's possible that it's not getting the signal to fire. If that's the case, either the pickup or the module is suspect. Since you've already replaced the module I'd tend to lean toward the pickup.


View: https://youtu.be/lWyn_eV-DzM?si=ZyDxnL3NvZS_X9BZ

Rock Auto lists the pickups for $20-30, plus shipping of course....

1978 FORD MUSTANG II 2.8L 171cid V6 Distributor Pickup Coil | RockAuto

RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.

www.rockauto.com

 

[JackH]

To clarify, this is how the system works. Imagine the switch that they're using in the video being the magnetic pickup or, in the case of an older engine, the points in the distributor. As you can see, the capacitor is downstream of current flow and essentially guides the extra current back into the system. In the case of your car it's directing back to ground which is why it's mounted to the body. So if your coil is new and assumed good but not firing, or if you tested your coil as was illustrated in Noobz's post and verified it's good, it's possible that it's not getting the signal to fire. If that's the case, either the pickup or the module is suspect. Since you've already replaced the module I'd tend to lean toward the pickup.


View: https://youtu.be/lWyn_eV-DzM?si=ZyDxnL3NvZS_X9BZ

Rock Auto lists the pickups for $20-30, plus shipping of course....

1978 FORD MUSTANG II 2.8L 171cid V6 Distributor Pickup Coil | RockAuto

RockAuto ships auto parts and body parts from over 300 manufacturers to customers' doors worldwide, all at warehouse prices. Easy to use parts catalog.

www.rockauto.com

Hey, I've also replaced the pickup coil so I will test everything once more but I'm getting correct resistance out of the new pickup coil

 

[JackH]

Sometimes you get new parts that are NOT working correctly, even if they are new. You could switch back to the old coil...
And I like the idea from noobz: checking ignition coil (perhaps old and new) like described in the video...
And another question: why are you sure you do not get spark? did you pull a plug and did you hold it against the engine block to confirm that there is no spark when cranking? or is this just an assumption?

I'll do a test on the coil again but I am testing with an in line spark tester. Also I know I have fuel and compression so I deduced it has to be spark