New Camaro
- Thread starter Strippt88
- Start date
Shakerhood
20+ Year Stangneter 
The only EPIC fail to me in the retro returns of old school muscle namesakes is the Charger. Dodge just plain dropped the ball on the Charger. Four Doors? Really, Dodge? The Challenger, in person and from a distance just screams classic mopar in the body lines, and I absolutely love it. The Camaro is a sharp looking car and I'm sure it will perform well. I haven't seen one up close yet so I can't make a final judgement on it. I don't put the 2010 Mustang in the same class as the rest of these because it NEVER LEFT since 1964.
Here's what I don't understand... between OPG and Year One, and the various other companies making reproduction parts, you can literally BUILD some muscle cars from scratch. If GM, Dodge, and Ford have the original stampings and machinery, why not just re-release the classics, either just as they rolled off the showroom floor, or with optional modern drivetrains and handling? Can you imagine stepping into a 2010-1969 Charger with a new viper drivetrain, or a 2010-1968 Mustang Fastback with a 6 speed, IRS, and a GT500 powerplant or even an ecoboost... maybe even the new 6.2L monster??
Sorry for the long post... I can't sleep
You can buy "complete" shell of some older Cars, the Mustang and Camaro being 2 of them.
Disagree... A recall speaks of a company's willingness to stand behind its product and fix issues that it recognizes before they cause problems for their customers. Every newly developed car has these issues. Nissan's flagship the GT-R, which is a 70,000 dollar car, definitely had its share of problems, but nobody questions its reliability.
People are prejudice against domestic automakers, and are bound to assume the worst of their product. I believe that's why the domestic market is in the ****ter while foreign auto market sales have soared in America. 15 years ago a great difference in reliability existed and our domestic companies deserved the wake up call that they were given, but that time has passed. That gap no longer exists, or at worst the difference is minute.
Now, the domestic auto industry has to free itself from financial burdens that destroy long-term profitability. The overhead associated with paying retired generations' of auto workers medical benefits and pay increases the operating costs and thus the cost of vehicles to the consumer. The thought of bankruptcy has forced the issue to a head. GM, Chrysler, and Ford through fear of complete failure have finally been able to gain crucial ground against the UAW. It was too late to save GM and Chrysler without gov't intervention, and on a side note, I believe that unlike the bank bailout, the auto bailout is money that tax payers will never see again.
Chris
+1, Chris. It seems backward, as a Teamster, but the unions have choked the company's for all they're worth, one reason they ship the jobs UAW folks used to do, overseas. Here in northwest Indiana, there used to be great jobs at the steel mill of your choice. Now there's a grand total of 2. They have to pay these guys huge pensions, and massive rates to the new people, with an ever decreasing amount of money. So everyones out. Thats not to say mismanagement isn't also largely to blame either. I think its ugly, but the new Camaro is a sign that they'd like to try to stay in business, with new products and ideas(even if the car is supposed to look old). That in itself is a good thing. But its going to take a lot more than good intentions.
QUICK91LX
Founding Member
The new Camaro is hideous abomination. I saw an SS on the highway on the way to work on the other day and it just does not flow at all, the back is a disaster and there have already been reports of that front overhang catching too much wind an causing cracks on both ends at the fenders.
The Camaro failed because it was not a pleasurable car to drive, no matter how fast it was. It was too low, too hard to see out of, rode like crap and had shotty build quality...which is why many people turned to the Mustang even if it did handle worse and was slower. I am not sure if any of these issues are really corrected with the new Camaro.
We are enthusiasts so we see excess HP as a good thing. 95% of John Q Public couldnt give a crap if the V6 camaro has 204hp or 304hp and actually all that power in the base car is probably a bad thing for all the women and young drivers who either dont care about or cant handle a 300hp car.
Ford has it right with the Mustang. a modest but peppy V6, a solid performing V8 that is easy to drive, and an animal for the upper end of performance.
I dont see the camaro really selling all that much. Definitely not as much as the Mustang.
The Camaro failed because it was not a pleasurable car to drive, no matter how fast it was. It was too low, too hard to see out of, rode like crap and had shotty build quality...which is why many people turned to the Mustang even if it did handle worse and was slower. I am not sure if any of these issues are really corrected with the new Camaro.
We are enthusiasts so we see excess HP as a good thing. 95% of John Q Public couldnt give a crap if the V6 camaro has 204hp or 304hp and actually all that power in the base car is probably a bad thing for all the women and young drivers who either dont care about or cant handle a 300hp car.
Ford has it right with the Mustang. a modest but peppy V6, a solid performing V8 that is easy to drive, and an animal for the upper end of performance.
I dont see the camaro really selling all that much. Definitely not as much as the Mustang.
89_LX
Member
I'm just guessing, but i think a big reason for their decision to make the Charger a four door was so it could race in Nascar. The Charger is the only car racing in Nascar that is actually RWD V8
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QUICK91LX
Founding Member
A car doesnt have to be 4 door to race in NASCAR. That is just a recent phenomonon in the last 10 years. Until 1998, all the cars in NASCAR were coupes. Monte Carlo, Thunderbird and Grand Prix. Before the Monte made its return in 1995, Chevy ran the Lumina Z34. When Ford discontinued the Thunderbird after 97, they went to the Taurus which was really the first car to run NASCAR that ONLY came as a sedan. In fact, Chevy ran the Monte Carlo all the way up until they switched to the Car of Tomorrow at which time they switched to the Impala.
I agree that there is no reason why the Charger name should be on a 4 door car. Have a large 2 door based on the same chassis and call it the Charger, then have a 4-door version and call it the Monaco or some type of older Dodge name that came on a 4 door.
My dads boss has a black SRT-8 Charger that he got to replace an 87 Grand National that he ran into the ground. A guy that works with my dad heard that the boss got a new Charger and he was all excited to see it (this guy does not keep up with new cars at all) when they got back to their office my dad pointed to it and said "Thats Pete's new Charger" the guy replied "THAT is a Charger?! FOUR doors?! Can't be! What were they thinking?!"
As a side note about NASCAR, I think its kinda funny how the Charger is the only one that does not remotely resemble the street version even a little bit. The others have a resemblance, but the laid back Charger nose is all wrong. Shoulda called it the Avenger like they did for the few COT races in 2008.
Fusion:
Impala:
Camry:
Charger:
white 89 GT
Member
Well im not prejudice against american autos but they still are not close to *** imports. I have a 03 focus (bought new) and its not the car the pinto was, this thing has issues starting with the axle shaft bearing thats worn out at 74000 mi. and the car has 104 TSB`s its a pile.
A recall does say something about a companys willingness to fix a problem but it also says they can`t get it right the first time around either.
That's better than the 4 axle shafts I went through in my Accord before 130,000 miles. I'm pretty sure that the first one went out around same place yours did, and I'll bet that Accord cost quite a bit more than your Focus. Using examples of individual vehicles may not be the best way to categorize the quality of an entire nation's automotive industry, wouldn't you agree? Also, this isn't '03. 2010 model year cars are beginning production now. I would argue that '03s weren't that far off, but even since then the gap has continued to narrow.
And about the recalls, again nobody gets it right the first time... Not cheap pintos, and not Lamborghini's. I think the company of highest automotive efficiency perception right now is either Honda or Toyota... Here's a quick glimpse of recalls on the Camry and the Accord... Every year has at least one recall for each from '92 through '06 ('07 in the case of the Camry). Take your pick: Used Toyota Camry Recalls, Defects, & Safety Problems at Automotive.com Used Honda Accord Recalls, Defects, & Safety Problems at Automotive.com
And about the recalls, again nobody gets it right the first time... Not cheap pintos, and not Lamborghini's. I think the company of highest automotive efficiency perception right now is either Honda or Toyota... Here's a quick glimpse of recalls on the Camry and the Accord... Every year has at least one recall for each from '92 through '06 ('07 in the case of the Camry). Take your pick: Used Toyota Camry Recalls, Defects, & Safety Problems at Automotive.com Used Honda Accord Recalls, Defects, & Safety Problems at Automotive.com
Its refreshing to hear a union guy talk that way. The union has become more of a burden than a protection agency for the working man, so much so that I hear more and more union and ex-union guys talk this way. Its become a money-sucking parasite unwilling to change for the better.
Like you said, American auto manufacturer's management styles have to change (and are, but slowly), but the union definitely is part to blame for what is going on. I graduated from Purdue with a Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering Technology, and I knew kids dropping out their freshman year to go work in the union, getting better pay (at 18-19 years old) to drive around a forklift than what I did after receiving my degree. Its bogus.
Everybody is entitled to a bad experience. American cars have been up to par with imports for the last 10-15 years, but most Americans refuse to believe that for some reason. The new Fusion was rated by Consumer Reports as the most reliable mid size car in 2009. It's not uncommon to see some of these Mod motor V8s running for 250K+ miles. Gm and Chrysler have reliable cars, too. Well, maybe more GM. I always questioned anything Chrysler made except for the Jeep, haha.
Sorry about all the :OT:
white 89 GT
Member
I think GM has done a better job quality wise than mopar. I have a 91 dakota 318 ci auto 227,000 mi still runs good, but the rest of the truck I must say don`t hold up so good.
A guy that I work with has 389,000 on his ranger p/u but the trans died last week.
Now im sure we all heard about the 1 million mi silverado p/u last year, with 1955 technology for engine anyhow, somehow I don`t see a mod motor ever doing this.
Now about those fusion`s I will wait to see how they hold up with a few years on them as I was thinking about buying one.
Another thing about my focus is it has started to bubble under the paint in just one place on the hood, they don`t use salt on the roads here so
A guy that I work with has 389,000 on his ranger p/u but the trans died last week.
Now im sure we all heard about the 1 million mi silverado p/u last year, with 1955 technology for engine anyhow, somehow I don`t see a mod motor ever doing this.
Now about those fusion`s I will wait to see how they hold up with a few years on them as I was thinking about buying one.
Another thing about my focus is it has started to bubble under the paint in just one place on the hood, they don`t use salt on the roads here so
blackened88lx
Active Member
I'm am a GM guy, and I have no problem saying they completely failed on the new Camaro. The thing is hideous. Ford did a pretty nice job with the Mustang but then decided to destroy that for 2010. I can't stand Mopar products but they did an amazing job with the Challenger. That car is really really nice. Too bad they're all 4k+ lbs. It's pretty sad when 725hp with slicks can barely break into the 10s.
russ1979
Member
The only EPIC fail to me in the retro returns of old school muscle namesakes is the Charger. Dodge just plain dropped the ball on the Charger. Four Doors? Really, Dodge? The Challenger, in person and from a distance just screams classic mopar in the body lines, and I absolutely love it. The Camaro is a sharp looking car and I'm sure it will perform well. I haven't seen one up close yet so I can't make a final judgement on it. I don't put the 2010 Mustang in the same class as the rest of these because it NEVER LEFT since 1964.
Here's what I don't understand... between OPG and Year One, and the various other companies making reproduction parts, you can literally BUILD some muscle cars from scratch. If GM, Dodge, and Ford have the original stampings and machinery, why not just re-release the classics, either just as they rolled off the showroom floor, or with optional modern drivetrains and handling? Can you imagine stepping into a 2010-1969 Charger with a new viper drivetrain, or a 2010-1968 Mustang Fastback with a 6 speed, IRS, and a GT500 powerplant or even an ecoboost... maybe even the new 6.2L monster??
Sorry for the long post... I can't sleep
the car co's would not be allowed to make the cars of the 60's today. the fed. goverment would not allow it. cars today must meet m.p.g. standers and safety standers that the old cars could not dream of living up to
russ1979
Member
i really like the new camaro. i like the look and the performance.
i kinda feel guilty liking it so much as i'm a die hard ford mustang guy.
i have not driven one yet but it is really tempting to buy one.
the 2010 mustang: i like the ft end but the rear end is a big step back from that last gen.
and it's down on power
thank god it has a much lower weight but if you think about it 3800 lbs is not that light.
i kinda feel guilty liking it so much as i'm a die hard ford mustang guy.
i have not driven one yet but it is really tempting to buy one.
the 2010 mustang: i like the ft end but the rear end is a big step back from that last gen.
and it's down on power
thank god it has a much lower weight but if you think about it 3800 lbs is not that light.
ok the new camaro is nice but when compared to the hyundia gen. the hyundia is faster in 1/8 and 1/4 and by 2 hp. although the hyundia has a little more room in the cabin than the camaro the hyundia has major shift shock and is a bumpy ride the challenger is the only come back car that looks like the classic. the gto looks like a accord and grand prix mix the mustang is some what close to the classic the interior is what looks like it the most the charger being priced at around 17k for the straight six is a decent deal but rather slow for the charger name if you want the power it will double in price for the hemi or r/t.. just my opinion but the shelby and roush is the best looking car that has made a "comeback" yea the camaro ss is super wicked at 420+ hp off the line and at 36-39k its a great deal now the gt500 at 540 hp bad ass the roush is a sick car to
1.My dad worked for Purolator when I was growing up, NASCAR has been ruined by the car of tomorrow, and the corporations. I don't, and won't go to their races anymore. 4 door or not, Pontiac sold 3 or 4 times as many 4 dr Grand Prix's as 2 drs- don't need to build a two door nobody buys, a lesson Dodge uses in its Charger. Where's the GN now, wanna sell it? 2. As a union member, I get robbed more by my greedy ass union more than I get help from them- that whole system needs restructuring, just like mgmnt styles. However, the work that I do in road construction, just because it doesn't involve a degree, doesn't mean I should be paid less than guys that have one, cuz it took just as long to learn to perform well enough to use, and with skills you just can't jump into the job and know. Making a road just starts at the engineering
. Yeah, I saw another yesterday, the Camaro is just friggin ugly
.
? 2. As a union member, I get robbed more by my greedy ass union more than I get help from them- that whole system needs restructuring, just like mgmnt styles. However, the work that I do in road construction, just because it doesn't involve a degree, doesn't mean I should be paid less than guys that have one, cuz it took just as long to learn to perform well enough to use, and with skills you just can't jump into the job and know. Making a road just starts at the engineering. Yeah, I saw another yesterday, the Camaro is just friggin ugly.
TrickFlowd
Member
The only EPIC fail to me in the retro returns of old school muscle namesakes is the Charger. Dodge just plain dropped the ball on the Charger. Four Doors? Really, Dodge? The Challenger, in person and from a distance just screams classic mopar in the body lines, and I absolutely love it. The Camaro is a sharp looking car and I'm sure it will perform well. I haven't seen one up close yet so I can't make a final judgement on it. I don't put the 2010 Mustang in the same class as the rest of these because it NEVER LEFT since 1964.
Here's what I don't understand... between OPG and Year One, and the various other companies making reproduction parts, you can literally BUILD some muscle cars from scratch. If GM, Dodge, and Ford have the original stampings and machinery, why not just re-release the classics, either just as they rolled off the showroom floor, or with optional modern drivetrains and handling? Can you imagine stepping into a 2010-1969 Charger with a new viper drivetrain, or a 2010-1968 Mustang Fastback with a 6 speed, IRS, and a GT500 powerplant or even an ecoboost... maybe even the new 6.2L monster??
Sorry for the long post... I can't sleep
That would be the shiot!!!
If GM and Ford don't get their s*** together, their won't even be a 2011 lineup. As far as the 2010 Camaro and Stang, they both are hideous looking, not to mention grabber blue on the new GT looks like a womens car x10. The body lines on both cars make me wanna puke!!! Dodge is the only one in my opinion that hit bullseye with the 2010 retro Challenger. Similar threads
