• Mustang Forums
  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech

1990 Cobra Idling Erratically

  • Thread starter Thread starter Whitecobrafox13
  • Start date Start date Oct 29, 2017
  • Tags Tags
    runs rough stumped
  • 1
  • 2
Next
1 of 2 Next Last

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#1
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #1
Okay. So I recently bought a 1990 mustang gt. Clear title 50 bucks. Figured for that price as long as the subframe was straight I couldn't go wrong. Well boy was I wrong.


So. My problems are this
For one my brand new coil is arcing almost 2 inches to the strut tower. I tried replacing it with another and it did the same (both brand new).
Car is constantly searching for idle.
I've run through the no start list that's been shown in most of the post regarding these issues and all seem to be fine.
Also when I throttle it will flood so bad it'll backfire through the exhaust.
If it doesn't bust right off it'll pour gas out the tailpipe.
Sometimes it runs great and strong (1 out of maybe 25 starts) smooth and runs perfect until engine is turned off at which point you roll the dice again.
Other times it runs like garbage. Misfiring stumbling and bucking at takeoff and cutting out over 3500 rpm
I have my fuel pump on a toggle switch (by choice) if I turn it on for a few seconds and crank it it'll start right up. But if and when it decides not to start right off then I have to turn the fuel off for a few seconds of cranking before it will start and then turn the fuel back on.
Black smokes constantly sometimes and other times not at all
Base timing is at 14* and total timing is 32.
I'm so stumped about this issue.
So far my list of repairs goes a little like this.
-cleaned iac
-new egr
-new tps
-went through engine harness
-new coil, wires, plugs, gapped at 50 thou, cap and rotor came with new msd dizzy
-car started stumbling replaced tfi or tfs whatever it's called which was new with the msd but apparently it was damaged somehow because it was separating from the dizzy when I replaced it
-new fuel pump.
-replaced injectors with sn95 updated style 19lb injectors.
-new radiator
-Went through all grounds
-new maf
-new map
-cant find any vacuum leaks
-new fpr
-new fuel lines
-replaced every relay and fuse
-new eeciv
-new trans (auto to manual, did grab o2 harness and other needed parts for swap and works flawlessly )
-ford 9 inch rear end 3.55 gearing
-smog deleted head plugged
-bbk 68mm throttlebody
-Bbk cold air intake
-bbk shorty headers non-equal length 1 5/8 runners
-Bbk off-road h pipe
-5 lug conversion


I've done everything I can possibly think of to get this fixed. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
10 Year Member
Apr 6, 2011
10,739
6,720
214
Hillsborough county
Oct 29, 2017
#2
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #2
If you really have done everything in the list as you say then the car is basically new.

I didn't see where you pulled the codes. Or what ecu you are running
 

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#3
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #3
I'll go pull the codes again. If I remember correctly Egr code airbag code and some others. But I can't run a koer test either. It'll never start flashing when the engine I'd running. And the eec is a refurbed a9l from Oriellys. I'll pull the codes later and post an update. But what mostly has me stumped is why every once in a while it runs perfect until killed. Even if only killed for a second and restarted it goes to running erratically.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2016
27,856
10,533
203
polk county florida
Oct 29, 2017
#4
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #4
I moved this to the tech threads,
What is your fuel pressure
Maybe a pic of the engine compartment
And why is your fuel pump on a manual switch
 
Reactions: Whitecobrafox13

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#5
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #5
Fuel pressure is 49 psi
Before replacing the eec had no prime. Ran direct instead to get me back and forth to work still runs through relay and is a 25 amp fused switch. Worked for the mean time. Plan on going back to factory setup soon just don't have the funds per the moment. And engine bay is ugly but should be functional.
 

Attachments

  • 15093103767721114088011.webp
    613.8 KB · Views: 501
  • 15093104101932028292167.webp
    413.2 KB · Views: 452
  • 1509310507473549584867.webp
    271.3 KB · Views: 438

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2016
27,856
10,533
203
polk county florida
Oct 29, 2017
#6
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #6
Thats a big azz fuel line there. Also need to reconfigure that hot air intake, and get rid of that breather on the valve cover, make sure your pcv system is functional.
Fuel pressure is a little high, should be 40-42 lbs koeo and 32-34 koer at idle.
What codes have you got
I would guess you have the battery in the back
 
Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
Reactions: Whitecobrafox13

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#7
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #7
Didn't ever think about the fuel line honestly. Could an over sized fuel line cause an issue? I can't think of any way it could. I have been wrong before though. Do you know the correct routing of the pcv system? Would be very helpful. And I'm waiting on my battery to charge. Apparently a new symptom has arrived. Parasitic draw. Will be trouble shooting this while trying to watch these replies and give replies back.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2016
27,856
10,533
203
polk county florida
Oct 29, 2017
#8
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #8
I don't think the bigger fuel line is your problem, but I've been wrong before too.
stock manifold routing


You don't necessarily need the hose from the bottom of plenum to the t, just the tree to pcv valve, there is also a screen below the pcv valve.
 

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#9
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #9
karthief said:
I don't think the bigger fuel line is your problem, but I've been wrong before too.
stock manifold routing


You don't necessarily need the hose from the bottom of plenum to the t, just the tree to pcv valve, there is also a screen below the pcv valve.
Click to expand...
Mine goes from plenum directly to Pcv.
 

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#10
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #10
Codes are as displayed by light. 41, 23, 34,67,81, 82, 85,87,84,51, 23,34,67,81,82,85,87,84 then code 11
 

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL
In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
Mar 10, 2000
27,512
2,811
234
Dublin GA
Oct 29, 2017
#11
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #11
The car must either be of Canadian origin or someone put a cobra cover plate on a stock intake manifold. How do I know? The ports for a Cobra/Explorer/GT40 lower intake are in a zigzag pattern, not a straight line.

Picture of the Cobra/Explorer/GT40 lower intake.


There must have been a BOZO complete with red nose, frizzy bushy hair and big floppy shoes with a wrench working on your car. There are a bunch of emission related code in your code dump in an attempt to make the car faster. It doesn't work that way: all that happens is that the car doesn't perform properly and it makes the computer spit a bunch of codes.

Code 23 - Throttle sensor out of range or throttle set too high - TPS needs to be reset to below 1.2 volts at idle. Keep in mind that when you turn the idle screw to set the idle speed, you change the TPS setting.


You'll need a Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job.

Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

Always use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage.

Do the test with the ignition switch in the Run position without the engine running.

Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.

When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks. Set it at .6.v-.9 v.

1. Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

2. When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

If setting the TPS doesn’t fix the problem, then you may have wiring problems.
With the power off, measure the resistance between the black/white wire and battery ground. You should see less than 2 ohms. Check the same black /white wire on the TPS and MAP/Baro sensor. More than 1 ohm there and the wire is probably broken in the harness between the engine and the computer. The 10 pin connectors pass the black/white wire back to the computer, and can cause problems.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

You have 3 codes that are high out of range sensor; codes 23, 34, and 51. This is an indicator of problems with the 10 pin connector or the engine mounted wiring harness.

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.



Code 41 or 91. Or 43 Three digit code 172 or 176 - O2 sensor indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

Revised 20-July-2017 to add note that the 94-95 uses a 4 wire O2 sensor.

Code 41 is the passenger side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.
Code 91 is the driver side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

Code 172 is the passenger side sensor as viewed from the driver's seat.
Code 176 is the driver side sensor, as viewed from the driver's seat.

Code 43 is not side specific according to the Probst Ford Fuel injection book.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear.

Disconnect the O2 sensor from the harness and use the body side O2 sensor harness as the starting point for testing. Do not measure the resistance of the O2 sensor , you may damage it. Resistance measurements for the O2 sensor harness are made with one meter lead on the O2 sensor harness and the other meter lead on the computer wire or pin for the O2 sensor.

Computer wiring harness connector, computer side.

Backside view of the computer wiring connector:


87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (L\RH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (LH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a Gray/Lt blue wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a Red/Black wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs; note that the 94-95 uses a 4 wire O2 sensor.
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 27 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use pin 32 (gray/red wire) to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer. Using the Low Ohms range (usually 200 Ohms) you should see less than 1.5 Ohms.

87-90 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Dark blue/Lt green – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Dark Green/Pink – RH O2 sensor
Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
From the Dark blue/Lt green wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Dark blue/Lt green wire on the computer pin 43
From the Dark Green/Pink wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Dark Green/Pink wire on the computer pin 29

91-93 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 43 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 29 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
Disconnect the connector from the O2 sensor and measure the resistance:
From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 43
From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 29

94-95 5.0 Mustangs:
Computer pin 29 Red/Black – LH O2 sensor
Computer pin 27 Gray/Lt blue – RH O2 sensor
From the Red/Black wire in the LH O2 sensor harness and the Red/Black wire on the computer pin 29
From the Dark Green/Pink Gray/Lt blue wire on the RH Os sensor harness and the Gray/Lt blue wire on the computer pin 27

There is a connector between the body harness and the O2 sensor harness. Make sure the connectors are mated together, the contacts and wiring are not damaged and the contacts are clean and not coated with oil.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

Check the fuel pressure – the fuel pressure is 37-41 PSI with the vacuum disconnected and the engine idling. Fuel pressure out of range can cause the 41 & 91 codes together. It will not cause a single code, only both codes together.

Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness. The exception is that the 94-95 uses a 4 wire O2 sensor.

Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

Code 41 can also be due to carbon plugging the driver’s side Thermactor air crossover tube on the back of the engine. The tube fills up with carbon and does not pass air to the driver’s side head ports. This puts an excess amount of air in the passenger side exhaust and can set the code 41. Remove the tube and clean it out so that both sides get good airflow: this may be more difficult than it sounds. You need something like a mini rotor-rooter to do the job because of the curves in the tube. Something like the outer spiral jacket of a flexible push-pull cable may be the thing that does the trick.

If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.



Code 34 Or 334 - EGR voltage above closed limit –

Revised 26-Sep-2011 to add EGR cleaning and movement test for pintle when vacuum is applied to diaphragm

Failed sensor, carbon between EGR pintle valve and seat holding the valve off its seat. Remove the EGR valve and clean it with carbon remover. Prior to re-installing see if you can blow air through the flange side of the EGR by mouth. If it leaks, there is carbon stuck on the pintle valve seat clean or, replace the EGR valve ($85-$95).

Recommended procedure for cleaning the EGR:
Conventional cleaning methods like throttle body cleaner aren’t very effective. The best method is a soak type cleaner used for carburetors. If you are into fixing motorcycles, jet skis, snowmobiles or anything else with a small carburetor, you probably have used the one gallon soak cleaners like Gunk or Berryman. One of the two should be available at your local auto parts store for $22-$29. There is a basket to set the parts in while they are soaking. Soak the metal body in the carb cleaner overnight. Don’t immerse the diaphragm side, since the carb cleaner may damage the diaphragm. If you get any of the carb cleaner on the diaphragm, rinse it off with water immediately. Rinse the part off with water and blow it dry with compressed air. Once it has dried, try blowing through the either hole and it should block the air flow. Do not put parts with water on them or in them in the carb cleaner. If you do, it will weaken the carb cleaner and it won’t clean as effectively.

Gunk Dip type carb & parts soaker:



If you have a handy vacuum source, apply it to the diaphragm and watch to see if the pintle moves freely. Try blowing air through either side and make sure it flows when the pintle retracts and blocks when the pintle is seated. If it does not, replace the EGR.


If the blow by test passes, and you have replaced the sensor, then you have electrical ground problems. Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1.5 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery post. It should be less than 1.5 ohm.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.

Let’s put on our Inspector Gadget propeller head beanies and think about how this works:
The EGR sensor is a variable resistor with ground on one leg and Vref (5 volts) on the other. Its’ resistance ranges from 4000 to 5500 Ohms measured between Vref & ground, depending on the sensor. The center connection of the variable resistor is the slider that moves in response to the amount of vacuum applied. The slider has some minimum value of resistance greater than 100 ohms so that the computer always sees a voltage present at its’ input. If the value was 0 ohms, there would be no voltage output. Then the computer would not be able to distinguish between a properly functioning sensor and one that had a broken wire or bad connection. The EGR I have in hand reads 700 Ohms between the slider (EPV) and ground (SIG RTN) at rest with no vacuum applied. The EGR valve or sensor may cause the voltage to be above closed limits due to the manufacturing tolerances that cause the EGR sensor to rest at a higher position than it should.

The following sensors are connected to the white 10 pin connector (salt & pepper engine harness connectors)



This will affect idle quality by diluting the intake air charge


Code 51 Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor signal is/was too high -

[color= blue]Revised 6-Apr-2017 to add diagrams and resistance check for ECT wiring.[/color]

Possible bad ECT sensor or wiring. Possible missing signal ground – black/wire broken or bad connection. With the power off, measure the resistance between the black/white wire and battery ground. You should see less than 1 ohm. Check the same black /white wire on the TPS and MAP sensor. More than 1 ohm there and the wire is probably broken in the harness between the engine and the computer. The 10 pin connectors pass the black/white wire back to the computer, and can cause problems.

The computer Engine Coolant Temperature sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the temperature gauge. They are different animals. The ECT sensor is normally located it the passenger side front of the engine in the water feed tubes for the heater. It has two wires that connect by a weathertight plastic connector.

The water temperature sender for the temp gauge is located in the driver's side lower intake manifold. It has a single wire that connects by a push on connector on the temp sender.


If you have replaced the ECT sensor and are still having ECT like problem symptoms, check the ECT wiring .






See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.


Check the resistance of the green wire on the ECT connector to the green wire on pin 7 of the computer connector. You should see less that 1 Ω (ohm)

Use Pin 46 on the computer for ground for both ECT & ACT tests to get most accurate readings.

Pin 7 on the computer - ECT signal in. At 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Pin 25 on the computer - ACT signal in. At 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts. It is a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in the lower intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer.

50 degrees F = 3.52 v
68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61
212 degrees F = .47 v
230 degrees F = .36 v
248 degrees F = .28 v

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected, or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.

50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms
212 degrees F = 2.07 K ohms
230 degrees F = 1.55 K ohms
248 degrees F = 1.18 k ohms

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds



See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


There doesn't seem to be a list of engine running codes, since you got code 67
Code 67

Revised 18-Mar-2017 to include warning about the necessity of having a 5 speed O2 Sensor wiring harness when bypassing the wiring for test purposes

Cause of problem:
Clutch not depressed (5 speed) or car not in neutral (5 speed and auto) or not in park (auto) or A/C in On position when codes where dumped. Possible neutral safety switch or wiring problem. This code will prevent you from running the Key On Engine On tests.

External evidence from other sources claims that a code 67 can cause an idle surge condition. Do try to find and fix any issues with the switch and wiring if you get a code 67.

What the NSS (Neutral Safety Switch) does:
5 speed transmission: It has no connection with the starter, and the engine can be cranked without it being connected.
Auto transmission: It is the safety interlock that prevents the starter from cranking the engine with the transmission in gear.
What it does for both 5 speed and auto transmission cars:
The computer wants to make sure the A/C is off due to the added load on the engine for the engine running computer diagnostic tests. It also checks to see that the transmission is in Neutral (5 speed and auto transmission) and the clutch depressed (T5, T56, Tremec 3550 & TKO)). This prevents the diagnostics from being run when the car is driven. Key On Engine Running test mode takes the throttle control away from the driver for several tests. This could prove hazardous if the computer was jumpered into test mode and then driven.

The following is for 5 speed cars only. Do not do this unless you are sure that you have a 5 speed O2 Sensor harness!!!! Smoke, sparks and expensive pain in the wallet may ensue if you don’t.
The NSS code 67 can be bypassed for testing. You will need to temporarily ground computer pin 30 to the chassis. Computer pin 30 uses a Lt blue/yellow wire. Remove the passenger side kick panel and then remove the plastic cover from the computer wiring connector. Use a safety pin to probe the connector from the rear. Jumper the safety pin to the ground near the computer.
Be sure to remove the jumper BEFORE attempting to drive the car!!!





Code 81 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM2. The solenoid valve located on the back side of the passenger side wheel well is not functional. Possible bad wiring, bad connections, missing or defective solenoid valve. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Lt Green/Black wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve.

With the with the ignition on, look for 12 volts on the red wire on the solenoid connector. No 12 volts and you have wiring problems.

With the engine running, stick a safety pin in the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve & ground it. That should turn the solenoid on and cause air to flow out the port that goes to the pipe connected to the cats. If it doesn't, the valve is bad. If it does cause the airflow to switch, the computer or wiring going to the computer is not signaling the solenoid valve to open.

Putting the computer into self test mode will cause the solenoid valve to toggle. If you listen carefully, you may hear it change states.



Code 82 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM1. Possible bad wiring, bad connections, missing or defective solenoid valve. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Red/White wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the Red/White wire for the solenoid valve

With the engine running, stick a safety pin in the Red/White wire for the solenoid valve & ground it. That should turn the solenoid on and cause air to flow out the port that goes to the pipe connected to the heads. If it doesn't, the valve is bad. If it does cause the airflow to switch, the computer or wiring going to the computer is not signaling the solenoid valve to open.


Code 84 EGR Vacuum Regulator failure – Broken vacuum lines, no +12 volts, regulator coil open circuit, missing EGR vacuum regulator. The EVR regulates vacuum to the EGR valve to maintain the correct amount of vacuum. The solenoid coil should measure 20-70 Ohms resistance. The regulator has a vacuum feed on the bottom which draws from the intake manifold. The other vacuum line is regulated vacuum going to the EGR valve. One side of the EVR electrical circuit is +12 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side of the electrical circuit is the ground path and is controlled by the computer. The computer switches the ground on and off to control the regulator solenoid.



Code 85 CANP solenoid - The Carbon Canister solenoid is inoperative or missing.

Revised 11 –Jan_2015 to add warning about vacuum leaks due to deteriorated hose or missing caps on vacuum lines when the solenoid is removed.

Check vacuum lines for leaks and cracks. Check electrical wiring for loose connections, damaged wiring and insulation. Check solenoid valve operation by grounding the gray/yellow wire to the solenoid and blowing through it.
The computer provides the ground for the solenoid. The red wire to the solenoid is always energized any time the ignition switch is in the run position.

If you disconnected the carbon canister and failed to properly cap the vacuum line coming from under the upper intake manifold, you will have problems. You will also have problems if the remaining hose coming from under the upper intake manifold or caps for the vacuum line are sucking air.

Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel. The canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.

Connecting the gas tank vent line directly to the intake manifold will result in fuel vapor being constantly sucked into the intake manifold. There is unmetered fuel that the computer cannot adjust for. The result is poor idle and poor fuel economy.



It does not weigh but a pound or so and helps richen up the cruse mixture. It draws no HP & keeps the car from smelling like gasoline in a closed garage. So with all these good things and no bad ones, why not hook it up & use it?


The purge valve solenoid connector is a dangling wire that is near the ECT sensor and oil filler on the passenger side rocker cover. The actual solenoid valve is down next to the carbon canister. There is about 12"-16" of wire that runs parallel to the canister vent hose that comes off the bottom side of the upper intake manifold. That hose connects one port of the solenoid valve; the other port connects to the carbon canister.

The purge valve solenoid should be available at your local auto parts store.

Purge valve solenoid:



The carbon canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.
Carbon Canister:




Code 87 – fuel pump primary circuit failure. The fuel pump lost power while the engine was running. Check fuel pump relay, check inertia switch, wiring to/from inertia switch, red wire going to inertia switch for +12volts. Check the other side of inertia switch for +12 volts.

Fuel Pump Troubleshooting for 87-90 Mustangs

Revised 1-Dec-2015 to add fuse links diagram.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 1-3 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the upper LH corner to ground.

Foxbody Diagnostic connector


Foxbody Diagnostic connector close up view



Turn the ignition switch on when you do this test.


If the fuse links are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. A tire pressure gauge can also be used if you have one - look for 37-40 PSI. Beware of fire hazard when you do this.

No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – press reset button on the inertia switch. The hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch

B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most Mustangs built before 92. See the diagram to help identify the fuel pump relay wiring colors. Be sure to closely check the condition of the relay, wiring & socket for corrosion and damage.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness.
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect
for fuel escaping while pump is running.



The electrical circuit for the fuel pump has two paths, a control path and a power
path.

Control Path
The control path consists of the inertia switch, the computer, and the fuel pump relay coil. It turns the fuel pump relay on or off under computer control. The switched power (red wire) from the ECC relay goes to the inertia switch (red/black wire) then from the inertia switch to the relay coil and then from the relay coil to the computer (tan/ Lt green wire). The computer provides the ground path to complete the circuit. This ground causes the relay coil to energize and close the contacts for the power path. Keep in mind that you can have voltage to all the right places, but the computer must provide a ground. If there is no ground, the relay will not close the power contacts.


Power Path
The power path picks up from a fuse link near the starter relay. Fuse links are like fuses, except they are pieces of wire and are made right into the wiring harness. The feed wire from the fuse link (orange/ light blue wire) goes to the fuel pump relay contacts.

Fuse links
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/attachments/64326

Fuse links come with a current rating just like fuses. A clue as to what current they are designed for is to look at the size wire they protect. Fuse link material is available at most good auto parts stores. There may even be a fuse link already made up specifically for your car. Just be sure to solder the connection and cover it with heat shrink tubing.

Heat shrink tubing is available at Radio Shack or other electronics supply stores.

See the video below for help on soldering and heat shrinking wiring. There is a lot of useful help and hints if you don’t do automotive electrical work all the time.

View: http://youtu.be/uaYdCRjDr4A


When the contacts close because the relay energizes, the power flows through the contacts to the fuel pump (light pink/black wire). Notice that pin 19 on the computer is the monitor to make sure the pump has power. The fuel pump has a black wire that supplies the ground to complete the circuit.

Remember that the computer does not source any power to actuators, relays or injectors, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.



Now that you have the theory of how it works, it’s time to go digging.

All voltage reading are made with one voltmeter lead connected to the metal car body unless otherwise specified

Check for 12 volts at the red wire on the inertia switch. No 12 volts at the inertia switch, the ignition switch is turned off or faulty or there is no power to the EEC (computer) power relay. To be sure look for good 12 volts on the red wire on any fuel injector.
Good 12 volts means the EEC relay is working. No 12 volts and the ECC wiring is at fault.
Look for 12 volts on the red/green wire on the ignition coil: no 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty, or the fuse link in the ignition power wire has blown. No 12 volts here and the ECC relay won’t close and provide power to the inertia switch. Check the Red/black wire on the inertia switch, it should have 12 volts. No 12 volts there, either the inertia switch is open or has no power to it. Check both sides of the inertia switch: there should be power on the Red wire and Red/Black wire. Power on the Red wire and not on the Red/Black wire means the inertia switch is open. Push the button on the side of it to reset it, and then recheck. Good 12 volts on one side and not on the other means the inertia switch has failed.

Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt. Blue wire (power source for fuel pump relay). No voltage or low voltage, bad fuse link, bad wiring, bad ignition switch or ignition switch wiring or connections. There is a mystery connector somewhere under the driver’s side kick panel, between the fuel pump relay and the fuse link.

Turn on the key and jumper the fuel pump test connector to ground as previously described. Look for 12 volts at the Light Pink/Black wire (relay controlled power for the fuel pump). No voltage there means that the relay has failed, or there is a broken wire in the relay control circuit.

Pump wiring: Anytime the ignition switch is in the Run position and the test point is jumpered to ground, there should be at least 12 volts present on the black/pink wire. With power off, check the pump ground: you should see less than 1 ohm between the black wire and chassis ground.



The yellow wire is the fuel tank sender to the fuel quantity gage. The two black wires are grounds. One ground is for the fuel tank sender and the other is the fuel pump. The ground for the fuel pump may be larger gauge wire that the fuel tank sender ground wire.

Make sure that the power is off the circuit before making any resistance checks. If the circuit is powered up, your resistance measurements will be inaccurate.

You should see less than 1 Ohm between the black wire(s) and ground. To get some idea of what a good reading is, short the two meter leads together and observe the reading. It should only be slightly higher when you measure the black wire to ground resistance.

The Tan/Lt Green wire provides a ground path for the relay power. With the test connector jumpered to ground, there should be less than .75 volts. Use a test lamp with one side connected to battery power and the other side to the Tan/Lt Green wire. The test light should glow brightly. No glow and you have a broken wire or bad connection between the test connector and the relay. To test the wiring from the computer, remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector. It has a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place. With the test lamp connected to power, jumper pin 22 to ground and the test lamp should glow. No glow and the wiring between the computer and the fuel pump relay is bad.

Computer: If you got this far and everything else checked out good, the computer is suspect. Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector located under the hood. Probe computer pin 22 with a safety pin and ground it to chassis. Make sure the computer and everything else is connected. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position and observe the fuel pressure. The pump should run at full pressure.
If it doesn't, the wiring between pin 22 on the computer and the fuel pump relay is bad.
If it does run at full pressure, the computer may have failed.

Keep in mind that the computer only runs the fuel pump for about 2-3 seconds when you turn the key to the Run position. This can sometimes fool you into thinking the computer has died. Connect one lead of the test light to power and the other lead to computer pin 22 with a safety pin. With the ignition switch Off, jumper the computer into self test mode like you are going to dump the codes. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position. The light will flicker when the computer does the self test routine. A flickering light is a good computer. No flickering light is a bad computer.
Remove the test jumper from the ECC test connector located under the hood.

Fuel pump runs continuously: The fuel pump relay contacts are stuck together or the Tan/Lt Green wire has shorted to ground. In extreme ghetto cases, the pump relay may have been bypassed. Remove the fuel pump relay from its socket. Then disconnect the computer and use an ohmmeter to check out the resistance between the Tan/Lt Green wire and ground. You should see more than 10 K Ohms (10,000 ohms) or an infinite open circuit. Be sure that the test connector isn’t jumpered to ground.
If the wiring checks out good, then the computer is the likely culprit.

Prior to replacing the computer, check the computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery. It is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire. You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness

If all of the checks have worked OK to this point, then the computer is bad. The computers are very reliable and not prone to failure unless there has been significant electrical trauma to the car. Things like lightning strikes and putting the battery in backwards or connecting jumper cables backwards are about the only thing that kills the computer.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) &
Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif
 
Last edited: Oct 29, 2017

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#12
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #12
Sorry I'm new to these forums and still trying to figure out how to use them. Any help is appreciated and I'll definitely go through that list again and post my results in this thread.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,189
17,888
224
Massachusetts
Oct 29, 2017
#13
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #13
Pull the codes again. The inability the pull then is a clue as well to some underlying electrical issues.

Run the codes with the clutch pedal pushed in. That should clear a code 67 in case the trans NGS is damaged or not hooked up. Then you should be able to start the engine after pulling the KoEO and CM codes and run the KOER codes.

Check your grounds. The coil arcing to the fender makes me wonder if your engine ground (firewall and to battery) is in poor shape.
 

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#14
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #14
Yay guys new symptom. Now she won't start.
 

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#15
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #15
Mustang5L5 said:
Pull the codes again. The inability the pull then is a clue as well to some underlying electrical issues.

Run the codes with the clutch pedal pushed in. That should clear a code 67 in case the trans NGS is damaged or not hooked up. Then you should be able to start the engine after pulling the KoEO and CM codes and run the KOER codes.

Check your grounds. The coil arcing to the fender makes me wonder if your engine ground (firewall and to battery) is in poor shape.
Click to expand...
Where would these grounds be. I was pretty sure I went through them all. But only what I could find. Again. I've been wrong before. (quite often. Fabricator isn't exactly the same as mechanic lol. ) but I try hard to be a mechanic and love every second tinkering on this car
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,189
17,888
224
Massachusetts
Oct 29, 2017
#16
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #16
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/engine-ground-locations.791485/
 

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#17
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #17
Mustang5L5 said:
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/engine-ground-locations.791485/
Click to expand...
Running through these as I post this
 
Reactions: General karthief

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2016
27,856
10,533
203
polk county florida
Oct 29, 2017
#18
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #18
With jrichker's list and the codes in hand you got your work cut of for you, pencil and paper, make a list of corrections and get to work.
Keep us posted and ask questions.
 
Reactions: Whitecobrafox13

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#19
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #19
karthief said:
With jrichker's list and the codes in hand you got your work cut of for you, pencil and paper, make a list of corrections and get to work.
Keep us posted and ask questions.
Click to expand...
Will do
 

Whitecobrafox13

Member
Oct 4, 2017
23
2
13
Tx
Oct 29, 2017
#20
  • Oct 29, 2017
  • #20
Alrighty guys. I think I've found and fixed the problems. 4 issues remedied.
1. Probably the biggest problem. The two wires on the fender well, below the firewall tethered to one large eyelet. That I had spliced together. (rebuilt harness in a hurry. Forgot to crimp them) had come lose from driving. (both black one a hair bigger than the other).

Now car would start but was still stumbling over itself.
2. The brand spanking new tps was registering high closed throttle voltage. (just happened to notice that the original that I had replaced and set base idle on had a different number inside the pigtail connector) called the partshouse to see if they could replace it since they had evidently not given the right one. Upon calling was told that there was several different tps's available for that vehicle. I give them the old number and then the new tps sensor. I was told that the different tps sensors are all the same physically but read differently based on what engine trans model you have and smog needs. Because the car was a Cali car and here in Texas they sold me a Texas smog needs tps. (so they say. I have no knowledge whether he knows what he's talking about or just pulling my leg) after replacing with oem parts number tps runs almost perfect.

3. Fuel pump ground was almost rotted into.
4. New iac isn't functioning correctly. Will get another one and report back.


I only have a mild stumble now. When instant heavy throttle is applied (goosing it) it hesitates for a split second and then revs.

Thanks for all your help guys
 
Reactions: General karthief
  • 1
  • 2
Next
1 of 2 Next Last
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
1987 5.0 speed density Foxbody crank no start
  • Alan2204
  • May 23, 2026
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
Replies
10
Views
164
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech May 30, 2026
Mcmahst
B
Electrical Why does my fox body keep frying eecs
  • brandyn200
  • Saturday at 3:35 PM
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
Replies
5
Views
102
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech Monday at 1:18 PM
Mustang5L5
C
Engine Idle cuts out
  • claypoolxx
  • Mar 7, 2026
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
  • 2
Replies
22
Views
563
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech Jun 5, 2026
KRUISR
K
Resolved Need some assistance. Holley Terminator X alongside H/C/I. Very rough/inconsistent idle
  • karhoot
  • Jun 6, 2026
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
Replies
0
Views
73
Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech Jun 6, 2026
karhoot
K
1990 Mustang with no-start condition - Fixed and how-to
  • TTSaleen
  • Mar 22, 2026
  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
Replies
0
Views
107
1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- Mar 22, 2026
TTSaleen
Share:
Bluesky Email Share Link
  • Mustang Forums
  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech
Menu
Log in

Register

  • Forums
  • What's new
  • Media
  • Resources
  • Contact
  • Sponsor
X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?

X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?