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1996 Mustang

  • Thread starter Thread starter wknwar
  • Start date Start date Mar 29, 2009
W

wknwar

New Member
Mar 28, 2009
9
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0
etown VA.
Mar 29, 2009
#1
  • Mar 29, 2009
  • #1
What is the highest compression recommended for using a supercharger?
 
M

Midnight2V

Member
Jan 30, 2009
224
0
16
Oklahoma
Mar 30, 2009
#2
  • Mar 30, 2009
  • #2
Gonna need some additional info to help you out.

What is your list of mods already done?
What supercharger are you going to use?
How much boost do want?
Will it be intercooled?
Will you use water/meth injection?
What type of power/torque levels are you trying to attain?
Do you want it to have lots of low end torque, or are you trying to make high end power?

To give you a generalization:

If you are going to use a roots, a twin screw where boost is not RPM dependent, or a turbo that builds boost at low RPM, you want to be at a lower compression (relative to the alternative).

If you are going to use a centrifugal supercharger or turbo that doesn't build boost down low you can keep a high compression ratio...you can even go higher that stock.

In reality, you can use any compression level you want. But like most other power building techniques there is give and take. When you have a large amount of boost at low rpm in a high compression environment you are closer to pre-ignition conditions. To compensate you must add fuel, pull timing, or both.

If you need further info, or would like some suggestions, please give me the specifics and I will help you as much as I can.
 
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wknwar

New Member
Mar 28, 2009
9
0
0
etown VA.
Apr 5, 2009
#3
  • Apr 5, 2009
  • #3
I got Keith Black 10:1 piston bored 30,000 over. Stage 2 Patriot Heads .500 lift cam a tuner cobra intake 70mm throttle body 75mm mass air kn cold air intake shorty headers 373 gears and most likly go with a small paxton my engine isnt together yet i hope my pistons dont need to b flycut
 
W

wknwar

New Member
Mar 28, 2009
9
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0
etown VA.
Apr 11, 2009
#4
  • Apr 11, 2009
  • #4
i have kieth black 10to1 pistons bored 30 over patriot stage 2 heads500 lift cam shafts 70mm throttle body 75mm mass air 99cobra intake predator programer kn cold air intake and 373 gears
 
M

Midnight2V

Member
Jan 30, 2009
224
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16
Oklahoma
Apr 13, 2009
#5
  • Apr 13, 2009
  • #5
Your peak lift is not going to affect whether you need to flycut your pistons, it will be the amount of duration involved that will determine that. Contact your cam manufacturer and ask if they know if you need to flycut your pistons. In any case either you or your engine builder should double-check the PTVC just to be sure.

Given that you are at 10.1 compression, I would generally recommend a centrifugal supercharger over a positive displacement. That's not to say you can't use either one, it just seems to me that a centrifugal will be a better complement to your current mods. But that is just my opinion, take that for what you will.

One other thing to consider is if your tranny or even your clutch are still stock, a centrifugal will beat on them less than a eaton/twin screw will. Thats because they tend to have much more torque than a centrifugal acting on the drivetrain during a shift.

Sorry I can't be more help on the cam right at the moment. Please let me know if I can give you anymore help.
 
W

wknwar

New Member
Mar 28, 2009
9
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0
etown VA.
Apr 14, 2009
#6
  • Apr 14, 2009
  • #6
thanks u helped alot, an i did get a differnt clutch although i did keep stock rods, will be ready tomorrow to check to see if valves are going to clear if they dont i think ill get rods u think i should get bigger injectors or go with hotter ignition next.
 
M

Midnight2V

Member
Jan 30, 2009
224
0
16
Oklahoma
Apr 16, 2009
#7
  • Apr 16, 2009
  • #7
Fuel first, you can gap your plugs down to prevent fire blow-out. If you are staying under 450RWHP you are probably safe with 42# injectors, beyond that up to 600RWHP I would use a 60# set.

Any bigger and you need to go with a stand alone system such as FAST to support big injectors which have an incompatible impedence value with the stock fuel system, I can't remember off-hand if they are lower or higher impedence but anything bigger than 60 is where the change occurs. There is one new company that makes 71# at stock impedence levels.

The sacrifice of using a bigger injector is that you will burn a lot more gas at idle, coasting, and low load due to the injectors being used at less than 5% duty cycle at these points.

Go with the biggest in-tank fuel pump you can. You also need to upgrade your fuel lines if you go much past 500RWHP.

Once you have fuel right, then get an aftermarket ignition. You can open your plugs back up and see some top end gain at that point. Until you can get that ignition, keep your gap at .024" if you are less thant 10# of boost, for more boost go with .018". Once the ignition is in, you can open up your gap, maybe as much as .035" Use a dyno to see how much gap you can get away with. I would love to give you a solid figure but there are too many variables (combustion chamber shape, air velocity, boost level, ignition voltage, etc.) You will know if you have to much gap because the car will stop increasing power as you spin it up.

Anything else, let me know. If anyone reading this thread has better information than me, feel free to throw in your 2 cents.

Hope this helps.
 
W

wknwar

New Member
Mar 28, 2009
9
0
0
etown VA.
Apr 20, 2009
#8
  • Apr 20, 2009
  • #8
.
Midnight2V said:
Fuel first, you can gap your plugs down to prevent fire blow-out. If you are staying under 450RWHP you are probably safe with 42# injectors, beyond that up to 600RWHP I would use a 60# set.

Any bigger and you need to go with a stand alone system such as FAST to support big injectors which have an incompatible impedence value with the stock fuel system, I can't remember off-hand if they are lower or higher impedence but anything bigger than 60 is where the change occurs. There is one new company that makes 71# at stock impedence levels.

The sacrifice of using a bigger injector is that you will burn a lot more gas at idle, coasting, and low load due to the injectors being used at less than 5% duty cycle at these points.

Go with the biggest in-tank fuel pump you can. You also need to upgrade your fuel lines if you go much past 500RWHP.

Once you have fuel right, then get an aftermarket ignition. You can open your plugs back up and see some top end gain at that point. Until you can get that ignition, keep your gap at .024" if you are less thant 10# of boost, for more boost go with .018". Once the ignition is in, you can open up your gap, maybe as much as .035" Use a dyno to see how much gap you can get away with. I would love to give you a solid figure but there are too many variables (combustion chamber shape, air velocity, boost level, ignition voltage, etc.) You will know if you have to much gap because the car will stop increasing power as you spin it up.

Anything else, let me know. If anyone reading this thread has better information than me, feel free to throw in your 2 cents.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
 
W

wknwar

New Member
Mar 28, 2009
9
0
0
etown VA.
Apr 20, 2009
#9
  • Apr 20, 2009
  • #9
i still have stock rods an crank do u think they will hold.
 

trinity_gt

10 Year Member
Jan 31, 2003
3,125
81
99
Canada
Apr 20, 2009
#10
  • Apr 20, 2009
  • #10
wknwar said:
i still have stock rods an crank do u think they will hold.
Click to expand...

Midnight2V made some good points.

The crank will be fine if you keep the RPM sane but I wouldn't trust the rods. They're a weak point.

Seriously, you've got the motor in pieces now so think carefully about your combo and what you want to do. If you want to build a blower motor, start now. Consider trading your 10cc (?) KB pistons for some 17cc parts to get down to ~9.4:1. Get a set of Manley H-beam rods to match the pistons and your bottom end will be pretty much good to go. You're this far into it...get the right parts. A broken rod will trash the rest of the motor so don't skimp now on stuff like this.

If you've got good gas and are assured of always having a supply of it, 10:1 might work but it's going to be more detonation prone. With a blower, especially a PD one, you don't really need or want lots of static compression...

You'll need a custom tune to go along with whatever your combo ends up being (centri, twinscrew, intercooled or not etc, injector size.) A 75mm MAF will probably saturate long before you hit 400rwHP so you might consider upping to a 90mm Lightning part (for example.)
 
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