302 Offset

joeythesaint said:

Stupid Question Time:

The 302 is offset about 1" to the passenger side, as evidenced by the hole in my hood where the Towers O' Carburetion protrude.

So, are the tranny and driveline also offset? If not, how does it bolt up? (I never noticed; it looked straight enough to me at the time) If is is offset, how is this resolved at the rear pumpkin; wouldn't the differential, if offset, be idiosyncratic to the II?

Just lying awake thinking last night, that's all. Talk amongst yourselves.

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The engine/trans are offset in the II's. This was done to clear the steering shaft. When I was younger ( alot ) I put a 289 in my 74 mustang , BUT I used 2 drivers side frame mounts and 71 torino 302 mtr mounts.This centered the mtr/trans in the car, but I always had trouble with my headers wanting to just touch my steering shaft. Anyway, to make a long story short, I had studied driveline angles , and what I remember most from that was that it is better to have the driveshaft at some sort of angle and not straight, for the U-joints sake!! Now I have a 77 that I put an 8.8 rear in. (the 8.8's are offset to the right) 2" I think ( correct me if I am wrong) And the 9" and even 8" rears are offset 3" to the left !! The 7.5 and some others I am not sure of. But what I am trying to say is some angle is better than straight !!

itsaMustangtoo said:

...............But what I am trying to say is some angle is better than straight !!

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REALLY!?!?!? now why is that??

JonDawg said:

REALLY!?!?!? now why is that??

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There has to be some angle in the driveline to make the little needle bearings in the u-joints spin. Ever taken one out and seen the grease marks from the needle bearings look like they wrap around the stub of the u-joint?? same principle. does this make sense to you? If not I'll try to explain a little better if I can. I'm not exactly an auto engineer.

vetwhat said:

There has to be some angle in the driveline to make the little needle bearings in the u-joints spin. Ever taken one out and seen the grease marks from the needle bearings look like they wrap around the stub of the u-joint?? same principle. does this make sense to you? If not I'll try to explain a little better if I can. I'm not exactly an auto engineer.

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K yeah, It makes sence now. thx

vetwhat said:

There has to be some angle in the driveline to make the little needle bearings in the u-joints spin. Ever taken one out and seen the grease marks from the needle bearings look like they wrap around the stub of the u-joint?? same principle. does this make sense to you? If not I'll try to explain a little better if I can. I'm not exactly an auto engineer.

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I think you may have misunderstood what you were reading. You wrote I had studied driveline angles , and what I remember most from that was that it is better to have the driveshaft at some sort of angle and not straight, for the U-joints sake!! , but htis threads about engine offset.

Each componant has a plane of rotation with an axix extending from the center of htis plane. In theory (see my sig) under load the pinion climbs thus changing it and the drive shafts plane untill all three planes come to zero (alignment). In this condition the drive shaft truns at a constant velocity.

I have the CAD file where I mapped out the vertical of the II drive line and IIRC, there is a 1.5 deg 'difference' between the engine and shafts plane and a 5 degree difference between the shaft and pinion.

I believe this is the difference your referencing.

With an offset engine these planes can never come into alignment.

About the 'center' being 'offset' from the center of hte axle housing? Are you sure the center is offset? Or is the pinion offset? I don't recall seeing an offset pinion, they've always been pretty much in the center of hte housing (least in cars).

Of course the chunks offset so the pinion can be centered.



With a offset engine these planes will never come into alignment,

Many vehicles have drivelines offset to one side. You just notice it a ton more in the II because of the much smaller engine bay. I've had lots of cars with stuff sticking through the hood, where the carb was not centered.

What's important with the angles is to keep everything straight, under load. If you looked down on the car and could see the drivetrain, you would see that the driveshaft goes back to the rear perfectly straight. If the motor and trans need to be offset for the design of the car, the 3rd member of the rear will be placed accordingly in the housing to line up with that. This angle is only cause for concern when people do custom drivetrain swaps.

Now the angle that changes with suspension travel, is looking at the car from the side. But that's just as important. You never want a u-joint under load and the shaft NOT be in line from the trans to the rear. That's why pinion angle is so important on high hp cars, big trucks, etc. On an optimum setup, when you are under load and the rear of the vehicle squats, you want the rear of that driveshaft and the rear end yoke to be in line.

I didn't misunderstand, I just didn't intend on getting that far into the details of pinion angle, suspension geometry, characteristics of such,etc. but thanks for bringing it out, I have to remember that not everybody has had to deal with such things. most folks to take it to a Pro.

It was not that I missunderstood anything. It was that I studied what I could from BOOKS back in highschool ( no computers-cads-etc.) and that was some 20 couple yrs ago. Haven't needed to study them since. I am on vetwhat's side I am not a pro nor did I expect things to get into such detail. Just a little insight is all !?!?!?!

""""So, are the tranny and driveline also offset? If not, how does it bolt up? (I never noticed; it looked straight enough to me at the time) If is is offset, how is this resolved at the rear pumpkin; wouldn't the differential, if offset, be idiosyncratic to the II? """" YES THE THREAD IS ABOUT OFFSET BUT I BELIEVE DRIVELINE ANGLE WAS THE QUESTION ?? YES-NO ?? """"but htis threads about engine offset." """"--------------------------------About the 'center' being 'offset' from the center of hte axle housing? Are you sure the center is offset? Or is the pinion offset? I don't recall seeing an offset pinion, they've always been pretty much in the center of hte housing (least in cars-----------HOW EVER YOU WOULD LIKE TO WORD IT. The pinion gear would be centered, which in turn would offset the ring gear which in turn would offset the center section right ? Don't believe me , pull the axles out of a nine inch ,betcha the left one is 3" shorter.