5.0 or 5.8? bang for buck!

OP said:

i want to be able to just lite up the tires anytime.

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it can be done with either. that said, a 351 block is a great base upon which you can build an extremely fast car. and a stock 351 windsor is kind of geting a 347 without having to pay for the stroker kit (but somewhat heavier).

then again, it sounds like you are planning on rebuilding anyway, so you would probably want to upgrade the pistons. even then, you are saving on the crank and rods.

of course, any money saved on a 351 motor would be "blown" on the other swap necessities

this probably sounds like a broken record, but whatever .... if i were doing it again, i'd stay 351 with a good blower cam, and somewhere in the 9.5:1 range so i could have decent gas mileage and run low octane gas, and boost it later if (when!) i felt the need to. best of both worlds in my opinion.

The most easy cheapest way would be supercharging the 5.0. Do you want 400 HP at the crank or at the wheels b/c it makes a difference in what way you should go. To hit 400 HP on a supercharged 5.0 you will need better heads and intake and a Vortech S trim which are fairly cheap when it comes to boosting. A proper tune will help against any blown head gasket issues but its never a 100 % guarantee with boost.

If you want to go the 351 route you should read up on what is required for the swap. Its not as easy as just dropping a 351 in place of a 5.0

Mustang 351W Engine Swap - Swap Your 5.0L For A Windsor - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine

To get a 351 to 400 HP NA is not to difficult if your talking about at the flywheel b/c that is what mine is at now with just a standard H/C/I combo and pretty low compression. If you start out with just a block you can put in higher compression pistons and smaller combustion chamber heads and make good compression NA and with heads/cam/Intake mods you will pull really good power with that. That set up may not net you 400 at the wheels but it will be in the high 300's. To with out a doubt getting 400 at the wheels you could stroke out a 351 to a 393 or a 408 with H/C/I mods.

No matter what route you go its going to cost money. What you really have to figure out is what your budget is for this project and price out each different way (ball park wise) to see what best suits you. Also you need to decide if you want boost or not b/c deciding between boost or NA and 302 or 351 is just to many directions to be pulled in.

No replacement for displacement... 351 FTW

I had built a 347 for my car and after I was done with my swap I could have done a 351 based stroker for like a couple hundred bucks more.

i say find a buddy with each and see what car is the most fun to ride in.

If I had to do it all over I would have rebuilt my bottom end and put a turbo on it. But no matter what it's about the same money to do all of the above. The sound of a wastegate/BOV just turns me on though. Mine will have a turbo within the next year or so.

Yes ... Specify if talking motor or wheel HP

Just to give you an idea about why it is so important

Stick Trans Stang First

You loose around 15% through the driveline
therefore
400 motor X .85 = 340 at the wheels

A fairly radical NA combo when using OEM short block
but
Not much of a task for a NA 347

Auto Trans Stang

I can't say cause every one seems to be a bit different
but
You will loose less than 15%

So ... if you wanna stay with the auto trans ............
It will sap more power

Grady

Crap, I bet the AODE gobbles up between 20 and 25% of your HP...

Ever see a Mustang GT dyno at 170 HP??? I have...

I need to correct my post above

I had the playoff game on my mind I guess

I said an auto trans will cause less than 15% driveline loss
and
That just ain't right

An auto trans will eat up MORE than 15%

Grady

5.0 block: 131 lbs. 351w F4TE roller block:154lbs C90E 351w less. 5.0 crankshaft: 37-47 lbs. Windsor crank: 47-57 depending on material and mfg. The connecting rods for a Windsor 100 gms. or less each additional. The lower intake (aluminum) for a Windsor 5 lbs. extra max. The 347 vs 408: 50-60 lbs more weight for 60 c.i., and hood clearance issues require maybe a heavier hood? 400 engine HP for N/A 347 (average) nearly 500 for a streetable 408w IMO 351W base motor is worth it if you go for the 408 and not worth it if you don't, say less than 393? forget it, of course an aluminum Windsor block (110 lbs) would be the ultimate and likely be lighter than any 5.0 motor...just a thought

I like 302/306 that revs really high, You CAN make 400hp with 302/306 N/A

64post said:

The lower intake (aluminum) for a Windsor 5 lbs.

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I just shipped a lower intake ( TFSR ) for the 351. It was aluminum and the lower was 19-22 lbs. Cant remember off the top of my head. I shipped the upper/lower in different box's and both were just about 20 llbs give or take a few either way

Gumby84 said:

so should i concentrate on converting to a t-5 then as a good step in the right direction? so then building a stroked 5.0 is cheaper then a 351 and i could build it to be supercharged. i am looking for the cheapest route to 400 flywheel hp. i don't mind spending money but i want to spend it 1 time not multiple.also i read a article in a 5.0 mag were a 306 mustang put 19 pds of boost threw the stock block and it holds! is it possible or short lived?

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Then just build a 347 and be done with it if 400 engine HP is your goal. P.S., there is NO "cheapest route". Whatever you do will cost more than you anticipated and there are many hidden costs. If you're real patient/persistent/diligent you can buy many items N.O.S, or used etc.. for example, I scoured ebay and craigslist for many of the items on my car. The 331 I am using was a project someone started and didn't finish and I was able to purchase at a very reduced price compare to paying retail, if you can stand to have a use manifold or headers then there's your cheaper route..Good luck

Gumby84 said:

so should i concentrate on converting to a t-5 then as a good step in the right direction?

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Stick or Auto trans is one of those things only you can answer

I've had an auto with high stall tc, shift kit and the whole 9 yards

It was impressive to be sure

I've had a stick setup which was a full on drag app which was setup
for high rpm power shifted gear changes

Now .......
Neither application is cost effective for just a street car

but still

To my way of thinking ... the auto trans always leaves me with feeling
that something is just missing when I wanna take my hot rod out for
some fun spirited driving around my town

You WILL put more power to the ground with the stick
but
That don't make it the right choice for everybody

so then building a stroked 5.0 is cheaper then a 351 and i could build it to be supercharged.

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Again ... Your focus is on a STREET CAR
You also seen to wanna get the MOST bang for your buck

You are gonna use an OEM block no matter if 5.0 or 5.8

1) If going NA and using the OEM 5.0 block 400 FWHP (340 RWHP) is a pretty
radical combo which will lope a good bit at idle and get very poor gas milage
driving around town

2) If going 347 you will make that 340 easily and it won't be nearly as radical
as when using the smaller amount of cubic inches

Now ... Bring a blower into these two routes

2) A blower here is all about you going beyond the limits of the 5.0
blocks strength and is just not needed based upon your goal :Word:

1) A blower makes WAY MORE sense here as you can still make your
power goal and not go beyond the blocks limit

You gotta know a blower on a street car requires more maintenance as
opposed to a NA setup and you need to have a different mindset about
running a blower

You always need to be aware about heat, quality of gasoline, and that
kind of thing

You can go 5.8 NA and easily reach your goal
but
You need different hood and other things not needed with the 5.0 block
which will cost you more money

i am looking for the cheapest route to 400 flywheel hp. i don't mind spending money but i want to spend it 1 time not multiple.

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If you can live with a blower and all that goes along with it

I would use an OEM 5.0 block, some aluminum heads which have much
thicker decks that helps keep them planted on the block so you don't
have as many head gasket issues

Get your self an intake and some headers

Your selection of heads, intake, headers, etc is not all that critical like it
is when going NA. Remember ... the blower is gonna cram down the mix

You could easily make your goal using OEM stuff like gt40 stuff but I do
like the idea of using aluminum heads on a blown combo

If you don't wanna deal with all that goes along with the blower

Do an OEM 5.8 NA combo with some aluminum heads to offset the
weight of the heaver block.

You won't have all the tuning issues, heat & gasoline worries, belt issues
and more that goes along with running a blower

but

You will have to deal with all that goes along when using the 5.8 motor in your Stang

As said by someone above ... there ain't no cheap route

If you are new to the hobby or don't have much experience with hot
rodding ... I'd say it might be better for you to stay away from a blown
combo

also i read a article in a 5.0 mag were a 306 mustang put 19 pds of boost threw the stock block and it holds! is it possible or short lived?

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Those mags and all they say

You gotta be careful about what you believe there

Case in point ................

Boost doesn't mean what most believe and the mags know that
therefore
They put up on their covers what they know most believe

Truth or not ... They know how to get the masses to buy their mag

Boost is really a measurement of back pressure

On a stock OEM motor airflow sucks
therefore
boost is gonna be really high

Put good h/c/i, headers on the same motor and boost goes down due
to less restriction to airflow

To make power ... you wanna have less restriction to airflow
so
see how that goes there

Well ... hope this gives you something to think about

You are wise to ask Q's before spending money foolishly

Talk to peeps who have done what you seek to do

I can tell you all about .......
using an OEM block
making 1 NA rwhp per 1 cubic inch
having stock like dirveability
cuz I done done it

Grady