5.4 or 4.6 for my new drag car?

Drew1287 · Jul 2, 2004

I am so tired of this small displacement motor! No matter what I do to the car It just doesnt like to go faster anymore. I think its time to build a new motor. I am looking at my options STRICTLY a drag car. Would a 5.4 or 4.6 be a better choice? I plan to drive it on the street sometimes but I wanna spray a 150shot at the track. I will be putting my current ported and polished NPI heads on the 5.4 or 4.6 and I will also keep my comp cams. Which motor stock 4.6 block or stock 5.4 block??

Here is the auction for my blower.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7908803042&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:MT:1

mogs01gt · Jul 2, 2004

Instead of just going with a longer stroke with the 5.4. I would lean towards a motor with a larger bore. The stroke will give you more low end, less reving but you wont gain hp like you would with the increased bore. Plus with having less of a stroke, you could really pull in the RPMs and be able to used tall gears. Like how most Mod racers do.

kirkyg · Jul 2, 2004

Definitely...what people wont tell you about the 5.4L swap is that you just can't get the rpms out that you can outta of a 4.6L with good breathing heads.

kirkyg

mogs01gt · Jul 2, 2004

Plus you will have to get Custom headers made because of the taller deck height of the block. That could always be a hassle and its more costly then off the shelf headers. Also, with the larger bore you are unshrouding the valves. Which means more POWA!!!!!!

RedGTvert · Jul 2, 2004

Read this thread if you want to know about a 5.4. After reading, then make a decision if a 5.4 is for you.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10896

Kirky, you tell Al (Boss330) he can't spin it high.

mogs01gt · Jul 2, 2004

lol since when can a SOHC came motor rev like a DOHC motor?

gruntman31 · Jul 2, 2004

Go DOHC with a blower. Nothing pulls like a DOHC. NA or blown. 4v > 2v.

kirkyg · Jul 5, 2004

RedGTvert said:
Read this thread if you want to know about a 5.4. After reading, then make a decision if a 5.4 is for you.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10896

Kirky, you tell Al (Boss330) he can't spin it high.

Al is nothing but an ass. He has just used his own knowledge of the swap to try to create a business for himself and when people ask for advice he treats them with an attitude of where is my down payment. The truth is it takes ALOT of money to make a long stroke 5.4L DOHC to spin as high as a 4.6L DOHC. Its really just a waste of money imo unless your just into the awe factor which of course you will get with a 5.4L in a GT.

kirkyg

CuddaWuddaShuda · Jul 5, 2004

330CID sounds nice but that 5.4L stroke is l-o-n-g.

I guess that if you have a seriously sticky seup out back, you might benefit from the extra stroke on launch, but in general I don't see the advantage of the 5.4L on the dragstrip.

I don't completely agree with that old adage about there being "no replacement for displacement." I guess you reach a point of diminishing returns with making a small motor rev up, but overall I don't see what advantage a 5.4L has over a 4.6L in a drag car (once you factor in money, weight, the rulebook, etc.) For that matter, I don't have any real urge to drive a big block.

Al does seem like an ass. Believe me, if he thinks powdered metal connecting rods are "the biggest joke ever played by a manufacturer," I could show him a few things. Like the Pontiac 301, which has 8cyl but somehow only 2 intake ports per head. Or the '87 Chevy "Nova"... it's a rehash of the '86 Corolla (the '87 Corolla got EFI). I digress, but the dude does seem like an ass and it seems like he fell into the trap of making an expensive back-slapper instead of a nice 281-based racer.

According to MM&FF, John Gullet's brother dropped a stock 5.4L in his GT and it dynoed at 240HP / 300LB-FT. To me, that sounds like a traction problem and not much of a race car. I am sure it's damn fun to drive around town if that's your thing.

Boss 330 · Jul 6, 2004

Drew1287 said:
I am so tired of this small displacement motor! No matter what I do to the car It just doesnt like to go faster anymore. I think its time to build a new motor. I am looking at my options STRICTLY a drag car. Would a 5.4 or 4.6 be a better choice? I plan to drive it on the street sometimes but I wanna spray a 150shot at the track. I will be putting my current ported and polished NPI heads on the 5.4 or 4.6 and I will also keep my comp cams. Which motor stock 4.6 block or stock 5.4 block??

Here is the auction for my blower.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7908803042&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:MT:1

2V 5.4's are very rpm limited by the low flowing heads. If you are going N/A 4V is the best option If you are going with a blower stay with your PI headed2V

Aaron 4.6 · Jul 6, 2004

kirkyg said:
Al is nothing but an ass. He has just used his own knowledge of the swap to try to create a business for himself and when people ask for advice he treats them with an attitude of where is my down payment

If Al is an ass, he is an ass with more self-restraint than I have ever seen. A comment like that is grounds for a straight up flame war, but he replied in this thread without getting defensive.

What exactly is the problem with Al's attitude? Why do people think that they ought to be able to come in late to the party and pick up all the great tech for free when other people have broken their wallets and asses to pioneer this stuff? I don't know Al Papitto from Al Capone, but I know he's been through that motor more times than I could bear. His knowledge has been earned by busted knuckles and money paid, and I won't call him an ass if he is a little protective of what he has learned. Just cruise any race pit and start asking detailed questions about clutch setups, suspension tuning, or engine management. People will either get quiet or just tell you garbage.

Say what you want about the man, but given the motor he has built for himself and the one Bob Cosby is destroying Factory Stock with, I think he's earned any money he makes.

kirkyg · Jul 6, 2004

Aaron 4.6 said:
If Al is an ass, he is an ass with more self-restraint than I have ever seen. A comment like that is grounds for a straight up flame war, but he replied in this thread without getting defensive.

What exactly is the problem with Al's attitude? Why do people think that they ought to be able to come in late to the party and pick up all the great tech for free when other people have broken their wallets and asses to pioneer this stuff? I don't know Al Papitto from Al Capone, but I know he's been through that motor more times than I could bear. His knowledge has been earned by busted knuckles and money paid, and I won't call him an ass if he is a little protective of what he has learned. Just cruise any race pit and start asking detailed questions about clutch setups, suspension tuning, or engine management. People will either get quiet or just tell you garbage.

Say what you want about the man, but given the motor he has built for himself and the one Bob Cosby is destroying Factory Stock with, I think he's earned any money he makes.

Oh no he is an ass...you've already got two people stating the same thing...he is just trying to line his pockets with total disregard for helping others when they need advice. Thats even if its misleading others to line his pockets btw.

kirkyg

Boss 330 · Jul 6, 2004

kirkyg said:
Al is nothing but an ass. He has just used his own knowledge of the swap to try to create a business for himself and when people ask for advice he treats them with an attitude of where is my down payment. The truth is it takes ALOT of money to make a long stroke 5.4L DOHC to spin as high as a 4.6L DOHC. Its really just a waste of money imo unless your just into the awe factor which of course you will get with a 5.4L in a GT.

kirkyg

Really?

This thread http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10896

I started three years ago is a complete ''How to'' build a 4V 5.4 powered cobra. All of the information is FREE to anybody that can read. How much money do you think that information cost me? Feel FREE to do a search on most any site( In particular the Corral) for Boss 330 and find one response where i asked for a credit card number before i responded with hard won advice (For FREE ). While you are at it...Find one person that has posted more serious hardcore Modular advice (Also FREE) on the corral. And building a 4V 5.4 is a waste of money, unless you want to own the baddest street driven N/A modular mustang. Show me one N/A 4.6 that makes 522 rwhp and still has a working air conditioner.

One more thing..KISS MY ASS! It really pisses me off when a non achiving keyboard jockey responds to a thread that involves actual racing.

Aaron 4.6 · Jul 6, 2004

kirkyg said:
...you've already got two people stating the same thing...

kirkyg

Is that a serious comment? Two people saying something makes it so?

Bring some fooking tech if you're going to smear a guy. Post a name, a personal experience, a specific anecdote. Anything.

Boss 330 · Jul 6, 2004

CuddaWuddaShuda said:
330CID sounds nice but that 5.4L stroke is l-o-n-g.

I guess that if you have a seriously sticky seup out back, you might benefit from the extra stroke on launch, but in general I don't see the advantage of the 5.4L on the
dragstrip.

I don't completely agree with that old adage about there being "no replacement for displacement." I guess you reach a point of diminishing returns with making a small motor rev up, but overall I don't see what advantage a 5.4L has over a 4.6L in a drag car (once you factor in money, weight, the rulebook, etc.) For that matter, I don't have any real urge to drive a big block.

Al does seem like an ass. Believe me, if he thinks powdered metal connecting rods are "the biggest joke ever played by a manufacturer," I could show him a few things. Like the Pontiac 301, which has 8cyl but somehow only 2 intake ports per head. Or the '87 Chevy "Nova"... it's a rehash of the '86 Corolla (the '87 Corolla got EFI). I digress, but the dude does seem like an ass and it seems like he fell into the trap of making an expensive back-slapper instead of a nice 281-based racer.

According to MM&FF, John Gullet's brother dropped a stock 5.4L in his GT and it dynoed at 240HP / 300LB-FT. To me, that sounds like a traction problem and not much of a race car. I am sure it's damn fun to drive around town if that's your thing.

If you would like to see the advantage..Line your Keyboard driving ass up with me anytime...Powder metal...Please explain (While looking at this 55 gal drum full of rods, cranks and heads. killed by shattered oil pump gears) how wonderful pM parts are. BTW Powerstroke diesels have had PM rods since 2001 and the powerstroke is now spitting rods out.

Want to talk about jokes..How'bout Austin healy's with five ports on a four cyl engine, Continintal four cyl's with TWO main bearings, Complete Corvair's, Vega's with aluminum bore blocks. Hondas with aluminum camshafts.

I fell in no trap..I set out to build a fast N/A modular powered mustang.
Also..I don't need my back slapped..Get in line and KISS MY ASS.

mogs01gt · Jul 6, 2004

"kiss my ass", damn. That is a little bit different tone than what I have seen from Boss303.

kirkyg · Jul 6, 2004

If someone actually read through all those posts they would realize they have more questions than they started with. Then is when you will find out what boss 330 is really all about.

there are more than 2 people that have said the same thing about him. Everyone who has asked for advice or extra info from him gets the same treatment.

kirkyg

RedGTvert · Jul 6, 2004

kirkyg said:
If someone actually read through all those posts they would realize they have more questions than they started with. Then is when you will find out what boss 330 is really all about.

there are more than 2 people that have said the same thing about him. Everyone who has asked for advice or extra info from him gets the same treatment.

kirkyg

I don't know, Al has always been helpful to me and has never asked for anything in return.

Maybe it's just you.

Boss 330 · Jul 6, 2004

kirkyg said:
If someone actually read through all those posts they would realize they have more questions than they started with. Then is when you will find out what boss 330 is really all about.

there are more than 2 people that have said the same thing about him. Everyone who has asked for advice or extra info from him gets the same treatment.

kirkyg

For example..., From the top of the SVT forum.
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=294367

I put this up because there were ALOT of problems with cam swaps..Exactly how do i prosper from helping someone to NOT blow up their engine? It is a very basic guide..My wife read it and understood it.. Or Maybe The actual tech is beyond your ability to understand.

slobra281 · Jul 6, 2004

People who think Al Papitto(Boss330) is an ass, are most likely an anal dwelling ass monkey themselves. Al has been more than helpful to me over the past 2 years with every single question I have had. You can't expect him to answer every single damn question in that thread. Its hard to follow something that big. EVERY single time I have PM'ed him or called him, he has answered every single question I have had.

Did I mention I haven't spent a single dime with Mr. Papitto?? So much for the whole theory of him trying to line his pockets with money eh? Al has a wealth of knowledge that he is more than willing to spread for those who are curious. Of course there are some things he is going to keep secret. Every good engine builder has their own tricks to stay ahead of the other guy. Case in point, Bob Cosby Factory Stock bullet. With a class as limited as that, every ounce of power has to count.

Seems as though Mr. Papitto has figured something out that other's haven't and in a competitive heads up class like that, good luck trying to get him to talk about that motor. That man has earned every penny he chooses to charge and keep quiet about anything he wants.

5.4 or 4.6 for my new drag car?

Drew1287

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