65 Coupe Axle Experience

L

lathamjr

New Member
Aug 20, 2011
10
0
2
#1
Just want to pass on a recent experience with a rear axle replacement. I looked through shop manuals and searched the internet for the problem I encountered and didn't find even a hint of information.
I ordered a replacement driver-side rear axle for my 8", 28-spline, '65 coupe. There is only one axle available (no variations) and it is advertised as "These are direct replacement axle shafts that require no cutting or modification to fit seamlessly into your Mustang." on the CJ Pony website. This turns out not to be exactly true. NOWHERE is it mentioned that there are multiple brake offset measurements that can only be determined by measuring the original axle. This includes the manufacturers' website.
I found this out $300 of labor and parts later. The replacement shaft had a lesser brake offset measurement than the original so the brake drum is solidly mated to the brake backing plate and brake shoes. With no gap it is totally locked up and will not turn. Not suspecting the axle we tried for some time to make it turn and identify the problem. We finally pulled the axle out and compared it to the original. There was about a 3/16" difference in the offset measurement. This explains what happened to the 1/8" that the original had. The original axle was put back in the car and I left with no gains and $300 in the hole.
I reported this on a Tuesday to CJ Pony and they said they weren't sure what I was talking about and had no idea of any problems. I emailed an explanation and photos that evening. I called for days trying to get an explanation and was always told they would look into it and return my call. After 7 days I was finally told that I had to deal with the manufacturer and they could offer no support for the problem.
I personally called Superior Axles while waiting for 2 days for a call from CJP and discovered they were fully aware of the problem. They even have a $17.25 spacer to fix the problem and there is even a good illustration of axle measurements on their website. They have a great tech support that offered the news about the differences. Too little, too late. I have requested that they share this information with consumers and vendors. If you measure the offset on your old axle and call them, they will even be sure that you request the correct spacer if needed. It's still an extra pull of the axle but less time spent with needless troubleshooting like we did.
The total absence of this information surprises me. I don't think anybody has shared this experience before online. It's a small percentage of axles but not the only one.
 
#3
horse sence said:
i used currie axles in mine ,perfect fit no problems, just told them over the phone what i needed they came ready to install,the brake width differance is in the backing plates and the drums not the axels
Click to expand...
http://www.superioraxlegear.com/tech-help-axle-measurements.html shows the brake offset I am talking about. It is about the distance the flange sticks out from the axle. The backing plate and brake shoes are fixed to the axle housing. The axle must space the drum and wheel out enough keep the drum from contacting the plate and shoes.
Kinda explained it this way to my wife...Put a bundt cake on a plate (this representing the backing plate and brakes...place a paper towel tube in the center of the cake, with a bowl over the cake (representing the axle and brake drum...the tube must be long enough to allow the plate to spin and still be aligned with the cake (brakes to drum)...cut it too short and the bowl will rest on the cake and plate, and will no longer spin.
This particular axle must have an additional 7/32" protrusion beyond the bearing position to allow the drum spacing.
The replacement axle was machined 7/32" closer to the end so it takes a spacer to get the intended brake offset correct. My original axle and another in my mechanic's shop fit perfect. The new one was overtooled to allow spacers to make it more universal. It's easier to add spacers than to tool it away. Just wish I knew about it in advance or the spacers came with it. No instructions ANYWHERE about this issue and to check for it.
I would probably call Currie to ask what there standard offset is but I'm stuck with making this one work after I get the spacer. No support from the vendor, only the manufacturer.
LESSON LEARNED: Get the correct facts from manufacturers' before major purchases like this. One size does not fit all.
 
#4
i agree the axles should not be sold as a direct replacement if they are not machined as a factory axle ,there is two different axels for a 65-66 however they are the same length and will exchange .the difference is the diamater of the axle the 2v cars used a slightly smaller diamiter axle than the 4 v cars but still used the same bearing. if using the factory axles i would use the larger diamiter 4v axel. the point i was tring to make is, the difference in brake widths is in the drums and backing plates not the offset between the bearing and the axle flange that is always the same ,and they should have stated that a spacer is required to run there axles. your best bet would probably be to buy the spacer ,i agree you should not have to it should come with a replacement axle , but it will probably be the cheapest way to go and the quickest
 
#6
i agree with you 2+2 the axle can not be a direct replacement if it does not directly replace the old axle, it must be set up for an aftermarket brake system ,that is again not a direct replacement and i do believe it should have been atleast sold with the spacer or they should change there description and i do think they should either
take the axle back with a refund or send the spacer, just wondering were this spacer goes, it would have to go between the brake drum and the axle flange and look somthing like a wheel spacer? and he should not have to deal with the manufacturer
that is for CJP to do if they cant stand behind the part they should not sell it
 
#7
Re: 65 Mustang axle experience

http://s1054.photobucket.com/albums/s499/lathamjr/
This is a great pic of the different brake offset measurements. The brakes definitely bind if not given enough width. I believe that the problem is that the replacement axle is generic enough that it was tooled closer to the flange to allow for more applications. It's easier to add spacers than for installers to tool the shaft. I received my spacer today from Superior Axles today that should make it right. The aggrevating part is that the axle is advertised as a direct fit with no mention of variations. A mention of measuring before ordering would be nice. Even then, only SA would be able to ensure you get the right fit first time. They are willing to do it but the advertising is way too misleading.My cay is totally stock and unmodified so parts marketed as direct replacements should fit.
I did contact CJ Pony many times for a week. I finally received a call back on day 7 telling me that they had no intention of any support or sympathy. Typical? I solved this one on my own at at my own expense.
You can see the ad wording and my review at:
PA6070A-28 Mustang Superior Rear Axle Shaft 8"/9" 28-Spline Driver Side 1965-1966 | CJ Pony Parts
Lesson learned is to talk to manufacturers and not vendors. My Mustang mechanic has great rates but they add up doing things at least twice and troubleshooting parts that should fit. I still have to waste another bearing set and labor putting the spacer on.
 
#9
The spacer should go on the shaft before the bearing between it and the bearing plate. Hence we have to destroy another bearing set to put it on first. I'm curious how that is going to interact with the bearing plate and how well it tightens up. At this point I am operating on the instructions of Superior Axles' tech support and not the vendor. I'll just have to removing the bearing set and give it a try. Now that I have the spacer I am going to give SA a call to verify the placement.
 
#10
lathamjr said:
The spacer should go on the shaft before the bearing between it and the bearing plate. Hence we have to destroy another bearing set to put it on first. I'm curious how that is going to interact with the bearing plate and how well it tightens up. At this point I am operating on the instructions of Superior Axles' tech support and not the vendor. I'll just have to removing the bearing set and give it a try. Now that I have the spacer I am going to give SA a call to verify the placement.
Click to expand...
unless the spacer will fit inside the opening in the bearing plate i would think it would interfear with the bearing plate and backing plate
 
#12
I would demand a refund and get an axle that FITS! If CJ wants their junk back it should be on their shipping dime. If they won't take care of you properly, we should boycott them. That should get their attention! On a different note, it would seem that the spacer would need to go on the inside (pumpkin side) of the bearing and then another spacer between the retainer and the backing plate. This just seems like a jerry rigged cluster fork with issues waiting to happen. And like Jim said, different brake widths and brake offsets are compensated for by the correct combination of drums, shoes and backing plates, NOT by axle length and or spacers. The part is just WRONG! Blaming the brake offset is simply just a lame excuse for a piss poor product! If they won't willingly take the thing back/refund you, make sure you remove all before you stuff it where it belongs!:jaw: Just ask me again and I'll tell you what I REALLY think!
Gene
 
#13
horseballz said:
I would demand a refund and get an axle that FITS! If CJ wants their junk back it should be on their shipping dime. If they won't take care of you properly, we should boycott them. That should get their attention! On a different note, it would seem that the spacer would need to go on the inside (pumpkin side) of the bearing and then another spacer between the retainer and the backing plate. This just seems like a jerry rigged cluster fork with issues waiting to happen. And like Jim said, different brake widths and brake offsets are compensated for by the correct combination of drums, shoes and backing plates, NOT by axle length and or spacers. The part is just WRONG! Blaming the brake offset is simply just a lame excuse for a **** poor product! If they won't willingly take the thing back/refund you, make sure you remove all before you stuff it where it belongs!:jaw: Just ask me again and I'll tell you what I REALLY think!
I just spoke with Superior Axles and they confirmed my description of how I think it has to go. I admit that I have to see it to believe it but SA tech support sounds very confident that it will work and I trust them more than any vendor.
I have spent $2116.20 at CJ Pony so they probably feel they have sucked out enough money from me that they can move on to someone else and leave me on the curb. Ironically, this project was hinting at jinx from the very beginning. I ordered the axle on 27 Jan with Fedex shipping. I had set up a time with my mechanic to install it the first week of February. It shipped on the 29th and somehow went invisible at Lewisburg, PA until the 4th. Even negative on a tracker but it somehow materialized and was delivered on Feb 07. I had to wait for another opening in the shop to get it installed. That day came with great disaster and cost. Hopefully the next round will finalize it and give me the smooth, quiet rear axle I want.
Click to expand...
 
#15
Got a chance today to hack off the bearing set to check out the spacer. The shim looks the same as the photo on both sides. I even showed the "cut to fit" shaft end of the axle. Plenty of splines there.
It's not too great a photo but the spacings on the axles now look equal enough to work.
2axles.webp
spacer.webp
shaft.webp
 
#18
i spoke directly with the machinist at currie to my surprise when i did the axles in my 35 ford truck i narrowed a 9 inch housing to 65 mustang width,i have my own jig.
told them i wanted 31 spline axels to fit a 9 inch small bearing axel housing at the 65 mustang width and got exactly what i asked for no fitting problems at all ,the axles have extra long splines as well , came completly assembled and fit right in my detroit locker with 3 91 gearing
i will have no problem using them again,cant be many conpanys that you can speak
directly to the machinist and i like that
 
#19
I finally had a chance to speak with someone at CJ Pony in a position to deal with this situation. We got it settled to my complete satisfaction. It's unfortunate that it took this thread to bring it to his attention. My motive was to educate others about this situation since I personally couldn't find it anywhere else on the web. This whole predicament is 100% communication failure.
You were fortunate enough to have the technical savvy to speak with Currie to get it right the first time. I was just looking for a simple direct replacement and thought I had found it. I've learned my lesson. I'm about to start playing the lottery if Superior Axles' information is truly correct. All information available points to there being only one 8" axle available for a V-8. They claim about 5% had this unique variance that required a spacer. I definitely defy the odds by having 3 (of 3) of them. The mechanic pulled an axle out of a bad axle assembly he had laying behind his shop to get me on the road temporarily since it had all the parts to just put on and go. And it was a perfect match. The splines are more than doubled on the replacement to allow length adjustment, so why can't it be possible that the tooling on the flange end is also generic? Like I said before, it's easier to shim than cut. I would have gotten it right with just a few simple words in the description about possible variations. Commucation failure snowballed into more.
I've got a new axle with spacer, the original axle, and a borrowed axle in the car all ready to make another trip to the mechanic to straighten it out.
 
#20
the only thing that wory me is with the spacer in place, now the axle is slid out
the width of the spacer so splines no longer slide in as far as they would with out the spacer, not sure how far the factory axle slides in but i think its only about an inch
so that would make spline engagement about 3/4 inch?
 
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