66 'vert - Big Block? MII front is already in!

I have been going 'round and 'round. I really need to settle on an approach, as I need to get on with the work. As a brief synopsis of the car:

1966 Convertible: much chassis work already done w/ 9" rear, 12" tires under stock sheet metal; lots of structural steel; dual rollbars and no back seat.

R&C Motorsports front end mods DONE - enough room for turbos or a big block. 3" cowl hood allows room for intake tract.

I was going to use a Ford B50 331 + AFR 185's + KB blower @ 12psi...but I'm getting used to a LOT of power in my GTO, and believe this combo will do well w/ a road course suspension in the 2+2. So I've been exploring a stroked 351W + turbo(s). And that is where it gets complicated. There is a catch-22 to this horsepower race for the small blocks, as it becomes necessary to shell out >$2000 for an aftermarket block for >600hp. Those blocks are heavier, and adding turbos, intercooler, etc provide even more weight.

Now I have an offer of a stock 460 to stick in the car. I have been searching far-and-wide for other cars w/ a big-block + MII suspension conversion but no real info so far. Searching the 460 arena shows me that good heads/cam/manifold/carb can make a TON of streetable power.

So...I decided to drag some of you into my own little private obsessional pit! The MII is not the end-all for cornering, and the big block won't help. But I doubt there is that much weight difference from a turbo'd 351W (dart).

Please weigh-in with your thoughts

Until the block goes split! Or, go back to the $5000 shortblock...and that is a tough sell on the homefront. Just realize that this leads down the 15-20,000 road...and that just isn't an option.

As I posted on the turbo thread, I am actually looking at a blown 408...negotiations are in progress!

5.0ina66 said:

Anything is more worthwhile than that POS. IMHO, a Randall's rack and all of the opentracker mods will run circles around a MII setup.

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And you have personally driven how many of these cars? And which setup(s)? Which control arms? Which shocks? What is your road racing experience? HPDE? Open track days?

Martz chassis is building some full-on road course cars with their version. Year One built an amazing car using the Martz parts. Call up Martz if you have questions about camber curves, roll center, etc, for his cars.

The MII setup is NOT the ultimate handling suspension and this 'vert was never designed to be. That is what my 2+2 is for. I wouldn't have set this car up with leafs inward to allow 12" tires under the rear wheels as a corner carver!!! I am looking for 650+ rwhp for this car. Front wheels in the air with hard launch. My daily driver is 500rhwp and this car will be a toy. A car show, cruising, straight line toy. Semi-capable in the twisties is fine.

I love the internet where everyone is an expert...so why am I even responding to this clown?

5.0ina66 said:

Whoa...way to jump off the deep end! What I meant to say was Flaming River rack = POS. I hope that's more clear. That said, I'd personally prefer a fully modified stock setup with a TCP or Randall's rack, but that's just me, no hard science, not trying to be an "expert", JMO.

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My apologies...I misunderstood what was the antecedant to your "anything"...and there are a LOT of people that slam the MII setups. But it's hard to argue when you want more room, r&p, and disc brakes. But my question still remains, and not just to you, but others: who has extensive experience driving several different suspension setups in these cars and can give VALID feedback. That is what is so hard in all of this. We are essentially buying parts based on what someone is trying to market to us. There is data in there, but certainly it is colored. When I first talked to RRS 2 yrs ago, they were trying to tell me about the superiority of their product, purely based on handling, not simply as a package with decent handling, good breaks, and easy install. One doesn't need to know that much to understand that strut setups are NOT as good as a well designed SLA. BMW's handle DESPITE their struts, not BECAUSE of it.

This thread is now superflous, at least for me. I have actually committed to a course of action for this car, the blown 408. I will have some real information down the road...

9.9sec [come on, you gotta think positively...get into the single digits!], I have gone back and forth on that front. The 2+2 will get built slowly, as there is a $$ issue. I've finished my GTO, have accumulated a LOT of parts for the 'vert, and somehow, it just seems cool to have a totally SMOKIN' convertible. And all of the power has got to have some rubber. I seriously doubt that the EVM rear suspension is going to allow 12+ inch tires, but I'm already there with the vert. As I have stated elsewhere, I envision my 2+2 as a road course car for open tracking [not going to go door-to-door in a classic...just can't see it!] utilizing the 331 sportsman block/AFR185/KB 2.2 blow-flow parts I have had for a couple of years [picking up deals whenever and wherever!]. That should net 500+rwhp w/ a FLAT torque curve...so it won't be slow. My wife's WRX is what feels slow since crossing the dark side and buying a GM[aussie] product, and then shoving a bunch of boost down its 10.9:1 compression throat.

All in fun!

I am trusting my fabrication guys that the structural work will do it's job. They really are good...but then again, this is a convertible.

My old pictures around here show the rear re-frame work.



The forward leaf-mount cross member piece is also used for the base of the roll bars above Then there is another tube going forward to the seat base torque box. Then there will likely be round tubing running along parallel to the base of the door, which THEN ties in to a under-dash bar/hoop...hope that makes sense. And also further tied to the front frame rails.

LOTS of steel, too much weight...but my engine builder is telling me >740 hp @ 12psi, so all of that weight can get moving.

I guess this info ought to be in a different thread as it has NOTHING to do with big blocks!

mdjay said:

Doc, nice rear subs, but the underside of that car is really rough. I would change the whole darn floor...

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Those are OLD pictures...lots of changes since then! Nice and shiny now.

jbsteven said:

347 with 200hp shot of nos in mine. goes pretty good with a AOD.

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Only when the bottle is full / heated / good pressure / armed / etc...which is my problem with NOS for a street car. You just never know when you may need to put the fear of God into someone [including yourself!].

Yeah, my flight of fantasy [stuffing a big block in this thing] only lasted a couple of days...>400 cubes small block + boost is going to be fun.