Fox Build ideas for the 'Hudson Heap' (87 GT)

[MadSquirrelTech]

Background:
Well, I picked up a $2500 87 GT hatchback recently that I am calling 'The Hudson Heap' for now, since I picked it up in Hudson, Florida, and well, it's currently a bit of a heap. My goal is to have a fun street car that I can daily drive, or at least use weekly, with some possible 1/4 mile fun at test and tunes every couple of months with friends. I am not looking at a restoration, but more of a restomod with some updates, but keeping the Fox feel.

My background has mostly been with Chevy products, and I have built quite a few small block Chevy's in my time and one or 2 Chrysler motors as well, but I'm not very familiar with 5.0's (yet), so I could use some guidance there.

The car is a 5.0/5-speed with a pretty thrashed T5 (pops out of 1st and reverse, etc.). Engine runs, but has a miss and a broken header bolt. It has some goodies already, but I am not 100% how far things go. Right now I can see:

Performer RPM intake (old school not Performer RPM II that I see quite a few of)
Edelbrock 70mm throttle body
BBK shorty headers
Beat to hell Flowmaster mufflers with no cats

There is some rust on the forward part of the driver floorpan that will need patching, but not too bad. The pinch welds are an abomination. Torque boxes and strut towers look pretty good so far and I don't see any major structural issues. Body is pretty rough with a small rust area below the back driver 1/4 window and below the back window on the hatch. These seem pretty isolated.

What I'm looking for:
I am looking for ideas on the engine/transmission and handling stuff.

Engine wise, I do like power, especially torque (my previous car was a Scat Pack challenger on airbags with 485HP/475lb-ft) but I want it to be streetable. I love the sound of a good cam. I will be going through the engine and am consider stroking it (347ci I believe) with an Eagle or Scat rotating assembly. I might eventually turbo it, so i want to build the lower end strong. I'm leaning toward a decent aluminum heads, but see that in many cases there may be valve clearance issues, so I would like understand what I need to watch for, and hopefully get some suggestions there. This is not a big HP monster, so I don't need the best, but do want good value for the money spent.

Transmission wise, I see some really low power handling capabilities on the T5. I know from the factor the 5.0 put out like 15 horsepower and 12 lb-ft or torque (Just kidding, but yeah, it was pretty week), so I'm bit concerned. Sinve this is a fun ride, I don't know that I need a deep overdrive like in a 6-speed, but want something that can handle 400hp or so reliably. Looking for ideas there.

As for suspension, I liked my airlift stuff, but don't know that I want to go that far on this car. Seems like a lot of work to get it to go really low, so I would rather work on a decent ride at about 2" lower than stock, but will be able to put some power to the ground. I've seen people say that keeping the stock upper rear control arms is OK with aftermarket lowers. The replacement K-member seems to be popular, but mostly for weight savings, something I am not too worried about.

So, any suggestions about these things, including pointers to relevant threads, would be great. I like to read and learn, but I am also wanting to understand things a bit more as get my feet wet in the blue oval world. I think the drivetrain is the first step, then I will work on the pretty stuff and suspension. THanks for any help. The heap is in the pictures

 

[Noobz347]

$2500 for a project that is as complete as that and in that kind of shape is a steal IMO.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

$2500 for a project that is complete and that kind of shape is a steal IMO.

Yeah, it was a strange transaction. The guy wanted $5900, but was clearly desperate to get rid of it and so standing there just looking at him, he started slashing the price rather quickly. The massive exhaust leak helped, and the fact that when he reved the engine, 2 of the fan blades decided to depart from the rest of them and take a trip outside the car. Scared the hell out of me and him. He tried to tell me the engine was a year old rebuild (not a chance), that the trans was good, but he wouldn't test drive without insurance (because he knew the trans was toast), and he told me that his attorney was holding the clean title due to his identity being stolen (turned out it was at a title loan place, but even when we were standing there paying off the loan, he stuck to his story about an attorney).

It was a risk, but the title IS clean (not rebuilt/salvage/etc.) and it transfered, including the release of the lien, with no problem. It was a hell of a way to start a relationship with the car though

 

[Noobz347]

Yeah, it was a strange transaction. The guy wanted $5900, but was clearly desperate to get rid of it and so standing there just looking at him, he started slashing the price rather quickly. The massive exhaust leak helped, and the fact that when he reved the engine, 2 of the fan blades decided to depart from the rest of them and take a trip outside the car. Scared the hell out of me and him. He tried to tell me the engine was a year old rebuild (not a chance), that the trans was good, but he wouldn't test drive without insurance (because he knew the trans was toast), and he told me that his attorney was holding the clean title due to his identity being stolen (turned out it was at a title loan place, but even when we were standing there paying off the loan, he stuck to his story about an attorney).

It was a risk, but the title IS clean (not rebuilt/salvage/etc.) and it transfered, including the release of the lien, with no problem. It was a hell of a way to start a relationship with the car though

It's the perfect way. That car needs you more than you need the car.

It's the start of a beautiful maintenance relationship. LoL

 

[bird_dog0347]

Nice find for sure man, especially at that price and that story to get it, lol.

For the engine, a 347 would be awesome and I had one years ago in one of my old cars, the extra torque was VERY noticeable and great for street driving. If you're going to add boost later though, I would seriously consider getting an aftermarket block like a Dart block, it's pricey but once you get up around 450-500hp on a stock block you're getting close to the limit. If you decide no boost down the road or never more than 450 then the stock block is fine. With a Dart block however you should just go ahead and do a 363 for basically the same price as the 347 kit and get the extra cubes. If you want aftermarket heads, the TFS 11R heads offer pretty damn good valve clearance compared to something like an AFR head with the same cam as long as you have the valve reliefs in the pistons and they will make great power. For the cam I'd say just go with a custom cam from somewhere like FTI (flow tech induction) or if you pick an engine builder maybe see who they like.

For the transmission, you could always go with a T56 but then there's the bell housing you have to account for, reverse lockout wiring, etc... Don't get me wrong, tons of people have done it but it's not a simple plug and play. For what you want I'd go with a Tremec 5 speed, not sure what their current models are but they are proven and would be easy enough to install.

For your suspension, the stock K member up front is fine if you don't care about weight savings or better handling (like for road course use or Auto-X) but the aftermarket units like Maximum Motorsports (just use them for all your suspension needs, they are fantastic quality) will give you weight savings, better geometry for better handling, and much more room under the engine to work on things and header clearance, etc. Even if you stick with the stock K member, I highly recommend the MM coil over kit up front as you will get a much better ride when lowered vs. the conventional springs. For the rear, if you stick with the stock 4 link configuration (lovingly known as quadrabind) you should upgrade the rear lower arms to the spring adjustable MM units so you can get your ride height set to match the front with the adjustable coil overs. Leave the stock rubber bushing upper arms (replace with new if possible) and do not put poly bushings in the upper arms as you will introduce bind. You can use heim joints on both sides of the upper arms but you will get a lot more NVH if you care about that. As for choosing the right springs/shocks, see this link to help you make the right choice.

Struts and Shocks Tech

As far as what to do first, I ALWAYS recommend going through the brakes as the stock brakes on a fox were barely good enough back in the 1990's and are not anywhere near good enough today. I can recommend a few different setups but they would most likely require switching to 5 lug wheels which will make it more expensive. I would certainly NOT add any more power until the brakes have been addressed if they are still stock.

 

[bird_dog0347]

Also it looks like it's got the old school March Ram Air kit, I haven't seen one of those since my old car back in like 1998! Is the scoop under the bumper beneath the passenger side headlight still there?

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

It's the perfect way. That car needs you more than you need the car.

It's the start of a beautiful maintenance relationship. LoL

I am going into this relationship with an open heart (and an open wallet).

I did just build it a nice home and took it in out of the cold, so hopefully it will be kind back to me. I hope to tackle the wear and tear stuff (bushings, springs, struts, gas tank and pump, etc.) up front so it will treat me well.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

Nice find for sure man, especially at that price and that story to get it, lol.

For the engine, a 347 would be awesome and I had one years ago in one of my old cars, the extra torque was VERY noticeable and great for street driving. If you're going to add boost later though, I would seriously consider getting an aftermarket block like a Dart block, it's pricey but once you get up around 450-500hp on a stock block you're getting close to the limit. If you decide no boost down the road or never more than 450 then the stock block is fine. With a Dart block however you should just go ahead and do a 363 for basically the same price as the 347 kit and get the extra cubes. If you want aftermarket heads, the TFS 11R heads offer pretty damn good valve clearance compared to something like an AFR head with the same cam as long as you have the valve reliefs in the pistons and they will make great power. For the cam I'd say just go with a custom cam from somewhere like FTI (flow tech induction) or if you pick an engine builder maybe see who they like.

For the transmission, you could always go with a T56 but then there's the bell housing you have to account for, reverse lockout wiring, etc... Don't get me wrong, tons of people have done it but it's not a simple plug and play. For what you want I'd go with a Tremec 5 speed, not sure what their current models are but they are proven and would be easy enough to install.

For your suspension, the stock K member up front is fine if you don't care about weight savings or better handling (like for road course use or Auto-X) but the aftermarket units like Maximum Motorsports (just use them for all your suspension needs, they are fantastic quality) will give you weight savings, better geometry for better handling, and much more room under the engine to work on things and header clearance, etc. Even if you stick with the stock K member, I highly recommend the MM coil over kit up front as you will get a much better ride when lowered vs. the conventional springs. For the rear, if you stick with the stock 4 link configuration (lovingly known as quadrabind) you should upgrade the rear lower arms to the spring adjustable MM units so you can get your ride height set to match the front with the adjustable coil overs. Leave the stock rubber bushing upper arms (replace with new if possible) and do not put poly bushings in the upper arms as you will introduce bind. You can use heim joints on both sides of the upper arms but you will get a lot more NVH if you care about that. As for choosing the right springs/shocks, see this link to help you make the right choice.

Struts and Shocks Tech

As far as what to do first, I ALWAYS recommend going through the brakes as the stock brakes on a fox were barely good enough back in the 1990's and are not anywhere near good enough today. I can recommend a few different setups but they would most likely require switching to 5 lug wheels which will make it more expensive. I would certainly NOT add any more power until the brakes have been addressed if they are still stock.

Thanks. Lots to unpack there. I hear you on the block, but I think I'm going to try to keep it under the 500hp range, even if I add some air pushers to it. I just want it reliable and ready to turn the key and go when I want to. My Challenger spoiled me in a high-horsepower/easy street car and although I know a 35 year old car won't be the same, I found that I can have enough power for street play. The Mustang is about 1,000lbs lighter, so anything over 400hp should be just as fun

I'll look into the Tremecs and consider options. Thanks for the suggestion.

I will be going 5-lug eventually as the wheels I like are all 5-lug, but I don't want to go too crazy with big brakes, especially without ABS to keep me from being stupid when I hit the 'halt' pedal. I'm not great with the whole finesse thing.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

Also it looks like it's got the old school March Ram Air kit, I haven't seen one of those since my old car back in like 1998! Is the scoop under the bumper beneath the passenger side headlight still there?

Yeah, it's an old March alright. The ram air/vaccuum cleaner scoop/water sucker-upper is in the back seat. Not sure I like the design here in Florida where we end up with a lot of water on the road quite often. My wallet and the term 'hydrolock' are not on good terms.

 

[bird_dog0347]

Thanks. Lots to unpack there. I hear you on the block, but I think I'm going to try to keep it under the 500hp range, even if I add some air pushers to it. I just want it reliable and ready to turn the key and go when I want to. My Challenger spoiled me in a high-horsepower/easy street car and although I know a 35 year old car won't be the same, I found that I can have enough power for street play. The Mustang is about 1,000lbs lighter, so anything over 400hp should be just as fun

I'll look into the Tremecs and consider options. Thanks for the suggestion.

I will be going 5-lug eventually as the wheels I like are all 5-lug, but I don't want to go too crazy with big brakes, especially without ABS to keep me from being stupid when I hit the 'halt' pedal. I'm not great with the whole finesse thing.

Don't worry too much about not having ABS at least on dry roads, just make sure you have good tires! Most people just go with the SN95 Cobra brake setup with front and rear disks, it's plenty for the fox size and won't be too much without ABS unless the conditions are terrible. Below is a link to LMR where you can shop for brake conversion kits.

https://lmr.com/products/fox-body-5-lug-conversion-cobra

Keep the stock block under 500 and you should be fine with a good tune.

Yeah, it's an old March alright. The ram air/vaccuum cleaner scoop/water sucker-upper is in the back seat. Not sure I like the design here in Florida where we end up with a lot of water on the road quite often. My wallet and the term 'hydrolock' are not on good terms.

Yeah, there are better options these days, you could leave it as is and be fine without the scoop and not worry about water.

 

[Noobz347]

As you can clearly see...


You will find no shortage of help spending your money around here.

 

[bird_dog0347]

As you can clearly see...


You will find no shortage of help spending your money around here.

He did say he has an open wallet... If he gets tired of spending money on his car he's welcome to help pay my invoices.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

He did say he has an open wallet... If he gets tired of spending money on his car he's welcome to help pay my invoices.

Oh, it's already open, but that doesn't mean it's bottomless

I know this is going to cost me, but the wife is happy that I didn't spend $20k on some other cars I looked at. That gives me some playing room. My biggest struggle right now is deciding if I want to invest in a 4 post lift, or toss the $ at the car. I'm not as young as I used to be.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

Well, this is the underside right now. This is the only rust I have found underneath and it's only on the Driver side floorboard. I'm pretty happy so far. The exhaust setup is a cobbled together mess and hangs down low, and crooked. That's OK, it's coming out.

I am looking forward to seeing how the engine is and will decide then if I am going to build this one, or start with another engine/block and build it while I drive this one. This does not run terribly, and if the compression checks out OK along with a boresope peek, I might just work on the transmission first.

It's always fun to bring home a new toy, especially when the old owner was a constant flow of BS. Did I mention he claimed to have been on Shark tank, but pulled his idea because they were going to take advantage of him. He also said he was an OTR trucker, but did not understand how to use the ratchet straps on the uhaul dolly. There was SO much more that he said as well. I wish I could have recoreded it. It just means that I have a lot of digging to do and will have to find out stuff by myself.

 

[Rdub6]

Two post/ Four post…….. if you have the means, I would definitely get a lift.

I don’t have, and not a day went by, working on the car on my back, that I didn’t wish I did.

 

[General karthief]

Get two, a two post and a drive on.
You'll thank me later.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Have a two post and it’s great. I want a four post as it has its advantages over a two post but I would have both if at all possible. If I could only have one it would be a four post with the jacking rails to do suspension work.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

Have a two post and it’s great. I want a four post as it has its advantages over a two post but I would have both if at all possible. If I could only have one it would be a four post with the jacking rails to do suspension work.

That's what I'm looking at, 4-posts with cross frames for jacking. I like being able to move the platform around on casters if I need to as opposed to having it bolted to the floor.

 

[crucifyd]

It's always fun to bring home a new toy, especially when the old owner was a constant flow of BS. Did I mention he claimed to have been on Shark tank, but pulled his idea because they were going to take advantage of him. He also said he was an OTR trucker, but did not understand how to use the ratchet straps on the uhaul dolly. There was SO much more that he said as well. I wish I could have recoreded it. It just means that I have a lot of digging to do and will have to find out stuff by myself.

this sounds a lot like when I bought the Galaxie...

http://galaxie.crucifyd.com

 

[limp]

this sounds a lot like when I bought the Galaxie...

http://galaxie.crucifyd.com

Sounds like watching " Just Rolled In"......