'70 351C w/o power steering - will this work?

Hack · May 31, 2004

Hi,
I'm planning on putting a 351C in my '70. Right now the car has a 250 I6 without power steering. I understand that the 351C is a good deal heavier, but I don't want to add power steering to the car. It steers and drives pretty well now with the manual steering box.

First of all, anyone have a '70 with a V8 and manual steering? Will the manual steering box, rag joint, etc. hold up ok?

Secondly, the Cleveland I have has two belts. One runs the alternator. The other runs the power steering and water pump / fan. Obviously I need to keep the water pump and fan. It looks to me like I need about a 7/8" thick spacer to run the water pump / fan from the same pulley as the alternator.

The problem I see is that the pulley that runs the alternator is larger than the one that runs the water pump and fan. My measured estimate is that the ratio of diameters is about 1.4 (5.25" vs. 7.25"). I'm not building a high-rpm screamer, and I'm not going to race or anything. If the water pump and fan run about 40% faster than factory, will that be ok? I guess I could buy an underdrive pulley if necessary. What do you recommend?

Also, the spacer will put the fan closer to the radiator. How much room is there usually? I'd really prefer not to move the engine and tranny back an inch right now.

69 302/351c · May 31, 2004

I've got a 351c in my 69 and I ran it for a while without a PS pump and it was too much for my wife to drive (we want to take both cars to shows) so I wnet with PS.

My pulley arrangment is a 2 groove crank pulley and a 2 groove water pump pulley..approx 5".. with the water pump and alternator running off the front sheaves and the PS pump running off only running off the back of the crank pulley.

Tried running the PS on the back groove of the water pump pulley and I couldn't stop it from squealing.

Hack · Jun 1, 2004

Thanks for the info!

Where did you get the two-groove water pump pulley? It sounds like you're saying that the two-groove pulley didn't require a spacer. It would be great to be able to run it that way.

At the moment I'm not going to worry whether my wife can drive it. It sounds as though it worked for you without power steering, so I'll at least try it and decide what I want to do from there.

Hack · Jun 1, 2004

Well, I broke down and bought a two-groove pulley from CJ Pony Parts. Their PN CAA7126 $56 delivered. I'm suspecting that I could get a pulley from any junkyard 351 with AC, and it would have two grooves and fit. However, I'm still not sure - and my time and patience is running short for my 351C swap. There also aren't a lot of junkyard 351Cs around here. I could probably spend a big chunk of $56 just driving to a couple junkyards to look.

Well, that's my justification, anyway. I'll post again if the part works for me.

Cantedvalve · Jun 2, 2004

I have a 1970 Mustang with a native 351C. It came with power steering (ironically, the ONLY option that car had). I got sick of the dripping, so I rusteled up a manual centerlink and pitman arm. I cleaned them up and installed them in place of the power stuff. I will never go back.

Maybe its because I am a big burly guy *GRUNT*, but I dont find manual steering that difficult to handle. I would upgrade to a manual rack and pinion (should one that works emerge, or TCP be ressurected somehow), but that is as far as I would take it.

I am almost to the point where I would declare that power steering is for girls... and not ALL girls, just the wimpy 95 lb toothpick types

My advice would be to go manual steering first, as that is cheaper to try than power. If you like it, keep it. If not, swap it out for the power stuff, but at that point you might as well get R&P cause it isnt gonna be cheap.

Cantedvalve · Jun 2, 2004

Hack said:
Well, I broke down and bought a two-groove pulley from CJ Pony Parts. Their PN CAA7126 $56 delivered. I'm suspecting that I could get a pulley from any junkyard 351 with AC, and it would have two grooves and fit. However, I'm still not sure - and my time and patience is running short for my 351C swap. There also aren't a lot of junkyard 351Cs around here. I could probably spend a big chunk of $56 just driving to a couple junkyards to look.

Well, that's my justification, anyway. I'll post again if the part works for me.

I THINK I have a set of stock 351C pulleys (a crank and a water pump) for a 1970, but I will have to look to be sure. They will work for a power steering setup, but not for a non-power. There is a rare (or at least I couldnt find it) water pump pulley for manual cars. If I have a second set (I want to keep a set for my car) I can send them to you. My wife will be happy to get them outta the garage

The way the stock pulleys on my car were was one belt from crank to alternator, and one belt for water pump, power steering, and crank. The water pump was a one groove. YOU WILL need to move the alternator BACK to line it up with the water pump groove of the crank. I dont have a measurement.

IF you go with manual steering, I am using the water pump, alternator, and crank pulley from a 5.0 Fox Body. EVERYTHING lines up. The only catch is that the water pump pulley is smooth (no ribs), but it has worked well for me. I think March sells a ribbed one.

dolfan87 · Jun 2, 2004

Cantedvalve said:
I THINK I have a set of stock 351C pulleys (a crank and a water pump) for a 1970, but I will have to look to be sure. They will work for a power steering setup, but not for a non-power. There is a rare (or at least I couldnt find it) water pump pulley for manual cars. If I have a second set (I want to keep a set for my car) I can send them to you. My wife will be happy to get them outta the garage

The way the stock pulleys on my car were was one belt from crank to alternator, and one belt for water pump, power steering, and crank. The water pump was a one groove. YOU WILL need to move the alternator BACK to line it up with the water pump groove of the crank. I dont have a measurement.

IF you go with manual steering, I am using the water pump, alternator, and crank pulley from a 5.0 Fox Body. EVERYTHING lines up. The only catch is that the water pump pulley is smooth (no ribs), but it has worked well for me. I think March sells a ribbed one.

I have everything you need for the V-8 manual steering. In fact I have brand new tie rods (inner and outer) the the drag link (used but in fine shape) idler arm, steering box, everything.

You pay the shipping and they are yours. I have the TCP Power rack, and none of this stuff is going to use on my car. Might as well help out a fellow Stangnetter right?

Let me know.

87

Cantedvalve · Jun 2, 2004

dolfan87 said:
I have everything you need for the V-8 manual steering. In fact I have brand new tie rods (inner and outer) the the drag link (used but in fine shape) idler arm, steering box, everything.

You pay the shipping and they are yours. I have the TCP Power rack, and none of this stuff is going to use on my car. Might as well help out a fellow Stangnetter right?

Let me know.

87

This is addressed to Hack right? I have all my manual steering stuff already

dolfan87 · Jun 2, 2004

Cantedvalve said:
This is addressed to Hack right? I have all my manual steering stuff already

EDIT Yes it's for Hack, sorry I am a little pre-occupied today.

I wasn't sure if the 6 cylinder steering components are the same as the V-8. So if you(hack) find out that you need V-8 steering stuff, give me a shout.

87

69 302/351c · Jun 2, 2004

I didn't need a spacer with the 2 groove pulley. Don't recall where it came from, may have been a left-over from my 302?

Hack · Jun 2, 2004

Thank you all for the replies! It's nice to hear from some fellow 69/70 owners.

@Canted valve - I'm not huge, but I think I'm strong enough. After reading your answer, I think non-power is likely to work for me. Thanks for the info regarding the 5.0 pulleys, I may look for some eventually. What belt are you running with them? Are you using an idler?

Also, thank you for the offer of the pulleys. I'll pm you if the two-groove I have coming doesn't work for me. The remark about moving the alternator backwards confused me. Wouldn't it run too slowly then? Or do you combine moving it with a swap for a smaller pulley?

dolfan - thank you for the offer of V8 steering components. I'm doing a Granada swap to get front discs in preparation for the engine swap. I'm not exactly sure what is on my car, but the '77 Monarch spindles bolted right up and the 1970 Mustang manual tie rod ends I got seemed to fit fine. I have 5 bolt suspension, I don't know whether the 6 cylinder suspension in '70s was 5 bolt, or whether it was swapped out by a PO. I have to bend a couple more brake lines and bleed the system, and then I'll be ready to test everything. I'll pm you if I have a problem that seems steering related.

Thanks again!

Hack · Jun 21, 2004

Hack said:
Well, I broke down and bought a two-groove pulley from CJ Pony Parts. Their PN CAA7126 $56 delivered. I'm suspecting that I could get a pulley from any junkyard 351 with AC, and it would have two grooves and fit. However, I'm still not sure - and my time and patience is running short for my 351C swap. There also aren't a lot of junkyard 351Cs around here. I could probably spend a big chunk of $56 just driving to a couple junkyards to look.

Well, that's my justification, anyway. I'll post again if the part works for me.

Well, this pulley lines up perfectly! Thank you to 69 302/351c for the suggestion. Now I can run 1 belt on the alternator and water pump pulleys, with no other belt-driven accessories.
I'm glad to not have to run the power steering, an idler or anything else. Hopefully the single belt will hold up running both the alternator and water pump.

'70 351C w/o power steering - will this work?

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