$8,999.99 Dealer markup!!!

Mark05GTVert said:

Ariel and Ariel Appreciation are two awesome funds that have outperformed the S&P over almost every timeframe. I could go on and on but I'm not a pro at investment advice... I'm speaking in generalization. Fair enough for you to call me on it - I can't spell out a foolproof way to make 9% but it's what I figure I'll make.

Anyway, it's not what they've done, it's what they're gonna do. I bet Vanguard Index 500 does 9%/yr the next 5 years. Heck, I bet Ford does well better than 9%/yr the next 5 years.

But all investments are risks.... for sure.

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I've been in Vanguard for a while and it ain't that hot. I have two things that have been going up faster than 9%--my house, and my old Mopar. But I'm getting ready for the housing and old muscle car market bubbles to pop. And I'm not sure I have that much faith in the stock market, either. I'll be paying cash for a used 05 cheap in a few years once a lot of 05 buyers discover they are stilll Fords and gas is over $3 a gallon...

Yep...was told +$4000 in Birmingham this weekend

I was looking at a GT w/ leather but nothing else optional...price was just under 27k. The salesman THEN told me that he was sure that they wouldn't take less than $4000 over list on that car. That irritated me even more as I wasted my time talking with them.

I've loved 'stangs since 1965...I own a 65 2+2 and a '66 'vert...had a 1987 GT...BUT I AM READY TO GO BUY A 2005 GTO! For $31000, there is just no comparison between these cars...sorry to abandon the new 'stang.

....cuz I was so excited last year at the 40th Anniversary show in Nashville when this car was first shown. Had really been looking forward to buying one. And I am not a GM fan...but enough is enough!

Jenns05Stang said:

sacrstang.... Another in my area...Sweet!....

As for "people will buy anything" someone out in my area in 2003 bought a 2004 Egg Yolk Yellow S281 Saleen from Folsom Lake Ford for $89,000... Hahahahaha....

Check some of this out for entertainment purposes only... LOL

http://www.folsomlakeford.com/frameset2.asp?LINK=NewCars&MAIN=new_vehicle_search

Jenn

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$39,000 for a 2004 gt vert! What a steal!

Mark05GTVert said:

Ariel and Ariel Appreciation are two awesome funds that have outperformed the S&P over almost every timeframe. I could go on and on but I'm not a pro at investment advice... I'm speaking in generalization. Fair enough for you to call me on it - I can't spell out a foolproof way to make 9% but it's what I figure I'll make.

Anyway, it's not what they've done, it's what they're gonna do. I bet Vanguard Index 500 does 9%/yr the next 5 years. Heck, I bet Ford does well better than 9%/yr the next 5 years.

But all investments are risks.... for sure.

Click to expand...

The overall stock market (large cap; mid cap; small cap) has averaged 10.7% over 60 years, 9% isn't unreasonable.

Opportunity cost is the real risk if you give it to Ford. 5% in the bond market or 10% in the stock market; avg of 7% still beats giving Ford all your cash if you assume a 5% cost of borrowed funds. If interest rates continue to rise it's a different calculation.

topless beach said:

The overall stock market (large cap; mid cap; small cap) has averaged 10.7% over 60 years, 9% isn't unreasonable.

Opportunity cost is the real risk if you give it to Ford. 5% in the bond market or 10% in the stock market; avg of 7% still beats giving Ford all your cash if you assume a 5% cost of borrowed funds. If interest rates continue to rise it's a different calculation.

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How many people do you know who have been in the market consistently from 1945 through 2005? Duration is the key. If you look at the S&P 500 from 1926-2003, the chances for a negative return varies greatly for rolling 1, 5, 10 and 15 year periods. For example, there was a 29% chance of a negative return for a 1-year period whereas 5, 10 and 15-year rolling periods had a 12%, 3% and 0% probability of a negative return. Impetuous people don't have the intestinal fortitude to profit over the long-term. They do however experience negative returns more often than a patient "buy and hold" personality. The turtle wins the race. Remember though that there's a 29% likelihood that you'll get a negative return in any given year. The genius investors on this board never pull their money out in bad markets but a lot of the average less informed people do. They subsequently miss the recovery that helps offset that loss.

The real key is interest rates as you say. If you're going to look at 60-year (long-term) returns you should also look at interest rates. Between 1950-2004, the Prime Rate has averaged 7.2%. In 1981 it averaged 18.9% (max for the period) and in 1950 it averaged 2.1% (minimum for the period). The average for the period was 7.2% and the rolling 3, 5 and 10-year averages were 7.3%, 7.5% and 7.7%, respectively. Our memories are short. People forget that in the late 80s and early 90s the prime rate was hovering around 10%. That's not cheap money.

That's absolutely insane! The highest markup I've seen around here is 5k. Someone needs to get their head examined if they think a buyer will pay that.

Apparently you have not taken a look at Bill Pierre Ford in Lake City. Last time I was there. They had a $10k over MSRP sticker. For Bellevue. $8k over MSRP is almost like invoice. I know someone who bought an 03 Cobra at Bellevue Ford for$10k over MSRP.

Blue Oval-I'm impressed; the avg interest rates you post make you wonder if we're still declining in the long term or we are poised for a large upturn.

I guess the relevance here is what one will pay to borrow $ to finance a stang. I know rates are headed higher, but I don't believe our economy is strong enough to force them a lot higher. Look at how short rates have risen and long rates have barely moved.

topless beach said:

Blue Oval-I'm impressed; the avg interest rates you post make you wonder if we're still declining in the long term or we are poised for a large upturn.

I guess the relevance here is what one will pay to borrow $ to finance a stang. I know rates are headed higher, but I don't believe our economy is strong enough to force them a lot higher. Look at how short rates have risen and long rates have barely moved.

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No doubt about it...these are good times. I bought my first home in 1992 with a 30-year fixed 9.75% mortgage. A decade later I got a 0 point 15-year fixed at 5%.

People with cash reserves and good credit are in the most enviable position. They have choices! People who MUST borrow to purchase a Mustang or any car don't and they pay more in the long term as a result.

Most people don't stop to calculate the real cost of their actions. A typical example...Buyer "A" orders a premium GT vert on X-plan. MSRP is 31,995 and plan price is 29507. Yes, he has to wait several months but his payoff will come. Buyer "B" goes to the Pirate Dealership this thread is about and finds the same car. Their price is 31995+8995 = 40990. He doesn't care...he loves the car and follows his emotions. Sales tax in their county is 7.75%. Assuming the same terms: 5k down, 6% APR, 60 months the same vehilce will cost buyer "B" $14,352 more for the same car (11483 price differential + 890 additional tax + 1979 additional interest)! Three years from now the next "hot car" hits the market and they both go back with their identical trade in the same condition. The car is only worth about 17k. Buyer "B" still owes $17750 on his '05 Stang and Buyer "A" owes $12144. Buyer "B" doesn't have any equity on his car after 5k down and 3 years of $757 monthly payments!

Who is going to be happier?

Obviously, if you change the terms the numbers change but guess who always comes out on top?