Alignment Issues, Need Suggestions

Silvergto2 · May 25, 2007

DerekStangGT said:
wow man, lots of issues going on here. i have some input, being that i know a thing or two about cars.

first of all, you went to the wrong shop. ive never heard of Les Swab or whatever, but it sounds like just another "National Tire and Battery" or generic shop. the reason they looked at you like you were crazy is b/c they dont know anything about a performance alignment. all they know is "i have to make the arrow on the computer screen turn green instead of red". an alignment is a very intricate (sp?) repair that requires the tech to actually know what hes doing, especially in the case of having a modded car. if not, he can actually make the car drive worse (which it seems he did). i dont think you said you had C/C plates, but hes feeding you a load of BS saying that the Caster is 'maxed out' b/c our car's caster is not adjustable from the factory. not many cars are anymore. thats why we buy Caster/Camber Plates, so we can further adjust Camber, and allow Caster adjustment.

Next, i wouldnt go back there anymore. i would demand my money back and go to another shop. every time you bring the car back, they have to align it for free again, and they hate that. theyre not gonna do a good job, theyre just gonna do good enough for you not to come back, or hope you get fed up and never go back.

As for one of your questions, its really not too hard to tell if your tires are wearing badly. if you drive down the road with the wheel cocked to one side, or the car pulls, chances are youre wearing badly. the harder the car pulls, the more theyre wearing.

So what would you suggest my settings be at then? Sounds like you are in the "get c/c plates" club. It's funny that you say the caster is not adjustable, I wonder why nobody else picked up on that fact and have been telling me to adjust my caster even though I have said multiple times in this thread I don't have caster/camber plates. Dropping my car has been the biggest BEEYOCH. If I would have known that C springs would caused me this much grief, I would have bought some more aggresive springs, C/C plates, and called it a day.

DerekStangGT · May 25, 2007

MaxedGT said:
Steve is right. If I remember correct the camber spec is -.8 +/- .5 deg. I aligned mine to -1.3 and about 5.0 caster and 0 toe. Notice I said 'I aligned mine". I bet these guys never checked the specs and are just going to settings that are common on most cars. Very few have a neg camber spec. Either that or the spec information they are using is wrong!

most 'reputable' or big name shops have Hunter alignment machines. the software that comes with them has the factory specs of all cars up to the current year that the software has been updated to. to my knowledge, i dont know of any common measurements that would work on all cars. each manufacturer specifies differently. thus, i would not expect/assume a Drone would know either

DerekStangGT · May 25, 2007

Silvergto2 said:
So what would you suggest my settings be at then? Sounds like you are in the "get c/c plates" club. It's funny that you say the caster is not adjustable, I wonder why nobody else picked up on that fact and have been telling me to adjust my caster even though I have said multiple times in this thread I don't have caster/camber plates. Dropping my car has been the biggest BEEYOCH.

i think youre problems are not with the suspension or spring choice, but with the shop choice. it is critical that alignments are done correctly. look for a good shop, or better yet, a good tech.

yes, im very much in the "get c/c plates" club. i think its a good idea even on a stock suspensioned stang. the adjustability is well worth the measly $250+install price. i have pro3i 3 bolt plates, but the MM 4 bolts are popular around here b/c they offer even more adjustability. my toe and caster are set to factory specs (easily found in any Hunter software thats built into the Alignment machine) but my Camber is set to -2.0* which is more towards the handling aspect. that setting handles great, and doesnt cause any premature wear.

Silvergto2 said:
If I would have known that C springs would caused me this much grief, I would have bought some more aggresive springs, C/C plates, and called it a day.

people say that less than a 1.5" drop doesnt need c/c plates, but obviously as in most automotive situations, there is an exception. i always recommend plates no matter what

Serper3 · May 25, 2007

wow... the people working on ur car are idiots... i cannot believe they cant figure out whats wrong with ur car... i think it would be easier though if u just got cc plates... that way u would get more adjustability and also, u could adjust camber and caster independantly from one another...
so they say that caster is maxed out... why cant they make it even though on both sides?
oh and are they saying they are leaving camber at .6 and .9 to help with the crown? because that is the most rediculous thing i have heard in my life...
first off they stopped adjusting for the crown like at least 15 years ago or so,
and especially u dont want to have crown compensation on a car with a sporty suspension!!! this is about as rediculous as having sex with ur clothes on..

if this was my car, i honostly wouldnt just leave the car like this... i would buy cc plates, install em urself... it will cost 200 for the mm ones but they are really good... installing em is pretty damn easy, u just have to drill the 4th hole and ur pretty much done...
after u have the cc plates in, take it to another alligment shop and get the car alligned...
done!
oh and why u are at it, sell ur springs and buy some H&R's.!
spring install while ur putting in the cc plates should be a piece of cake!

DerekStangGT · May 27, 2007

Serper3 said:
because that is the most rediculous thing i have heard in my life...
first off they stopped adjusting for the crown like at least 15 years ago or so,
and especially u dont want to have crown compensation on a car with a sporty suspension!!! this is about as rediculous as having sex with ur clothes on..

they stopped adjusting for crown 15 years ago? then why does every tech at every dealership ive ever worked at (3) still adjust for road crown?

SaleenGT2001 · May 27, 2007

i'm an alignment tech si i know a little about what i'm talking about

you want a -.5 caster offset. the drivers wheel should always be slightly behind the pass side wheel to offset for road crown. with the new specs you listed your car should be pulling right. camber should be between -.5 and -1.0 and close to equal on both sides. toe should be at .32

SaleenGT2001 · May 27, 2007

Serper3 said:
first off they stopped adjusting for the crown like at least 15 years ago or so,
and especially u dont want to have crown compensation on a car with a sporty suspension!!! this is about as rediculous as having sex with ur clothes on..

completly untrue. i still adjust for road crown b/c if you have a 0* offset the car WILL ALWAYS pull to the right b/c of the slope of the road.

do you have any idea about what you are talking about b/c you dont seem to have very much technical knowledge on this subject to me!

Silvergto2 · May 28, 2007

SaleenGT2001 said:
i'm an alignment tech si i know a little about what i'm talking about

you want a -.5 caster offset. the drivers wheel should always be slightly behind the pass side wheel to offset for road crown. with the new specs you listed your car should be pulling right. camber should be between -.5 and -1.0 and close to equal on both sides. toe should be at .32

If you are referring to my specs i'm actually still pulling to the left barely. I have done alot of research over the last couple of days and in fact got ahold of some techs @ Ford to give me recommended alignment specs. My current specs are actually not to far off from what Ford recommened. They showed I should be @ -0.6* Camber, 3.6* Caster, 0.25-0.28* Toe. I am going to take my car to another shop this weekend to see if they can get me closer to these numbers. I also think that the last shop set my steering wheel off a bit, and that's why I have to turn it a bit to the right to drive straight ahead.

SaleenGT2001 · May 28, 2007

sounds like you have a tire pull to me. the crooked wheel is due to the toe not being set properly.

steve_stang2003 · May 28, 2007

DerekStangGT said:
most 'reputable' or big name shops have Hunter alignment machines. the software that comes with them has the factory specs of all cars up to the current year that the software has been updated to. to my knowledge, i dont know of any common measurements that would work on all cars. each manufacturer specifies differently. thus, i would not expect/assume a Drone would know either

Yes it does, the problem is that when the techs using these machines have to think outside the box so to speak, they get lost.

IOW all of these adjustmenst effect each other and on a modded car, things may or may not fit into the range that the machine is giving them.
A good tech will know how to tweak the alignment on a modded car.
A bad tech will look at the green and red arrows and be done with it.
This will probably work on most cars, even slightly modded ones, but every now and then a car comes in that it won't work on and that is when the true tech gets separated from the drone.
I had a car (GM) that was in perfect factory spec alignment according to 3 different alignment machines, yet I still wore tires on the inside. This was from the day I bought the car brand new.
Finally, I took it to an old timer who had a local reputation for undoing alignment problems and he installed some aftermarket camber bolts (the car had fixed camber) in the strut holes which he also machined, aligned the car and it never wore another tire unevenly.

MaxedGT · May 28, 2007

SaleenGT2001 said:
sounds like you have a tire pull to me. the crooked wheel is due to the toe not being set properly.

swap the frt tires before you do anything more.

Silvergto2 · May 28, 2007

MaxedGT said:
swap the frt tires before you do anything more.

First off, I can't swap the front tires unless I want my directional tires on the wrong way or want to pry the tires off of the rims and physcially switch them. Secondly, it's not a tire issue! I appreciate any idea to fix my problem but the car drives great, then I put on new springs, then car drives like S*#$ and pulls to left, I'm not a mechanic but my issue points to the obvious, bad alignment. I've learned two things from all of this: 1.) I got a car from factory that can't be aligned correctly without C/C plates because of the front end "tolerances" and my camber is maxed out, 2.) I need to find a shop to do an alignment that doesn't argue with their customer that actually knows a thing or two about what he's talking about, especially once he's been to school on :SNSign: and will align my car correctly.

I would like to clarify one thing though, can CASTER be adjusted on our cars without C/C plates or is the CASTER non-adjustable from factory?

Alignment Issues, Need Suggestions

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