Alright gang, built Dart or Coyote?
- Thread starter Monkeybutt2000
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Cheapskate207
The left one hangs a little lower
I personally like a Sbf in foxbodies. Adding a newer modular motor takes away the muscle car vibe to me.
I had $25K in my 363 long block. Granted, it was a 8K+ drag race engine build.
The same money in a Coyote would have yielded more HP.
But at the time, a Coyote build was not an option as the parts/aftermarket had not caught up yet.
Price out a Dart Iron Eagle Block today. Well over $2K for an unfinished block, if you can get one.
If I had to do it over today, it would be a 7.3 Godzilla.
Hindsight is always 20/20
I cringe at the total $ I have in that engine (now 365 cid) at this point. And I ain't done...
“would be the last engine built for this car”…I’ve lied to myself like that a couple of times now.
I guess I'm ignorant, but why would the same money in a coyote yield more power? I got the impression they were done around 500rwhp n/a, far less than a nice combo on a 363, and certainly the limits of both blocks are astronomical on boost.
All of this expensive talk makes me appreciate my more basic daily driver. The expensive cars I built are great, but I'm getting more smiles/$ from the mild build/driver.
All of this expensive talk makes me appreciate my more basic daily driver. The expensive cars I built are great, but I'm getting more smiles/$ from the mild build/driver.
ThinBlue502
5 Year Member
My apologies, complete misunderstanding on my end.
It kind of sounds like OP is sold on SBF. In that case I would just use one of the known builders that offer pre-assembled long blocks. I do understand the desire to keep pushrod based small block.
It’s pretty awesome that there are so many choices out there available today. And that you can take any of those options from budget to overbuilt. I know when I pull/blow my stroked factory block motor I really want some big block thump. A pushrod 7.3 fuel injected gas motor and retain factory A/C? I’m in.
LMR’s series on it really impressed me.
Here’s one episode if anyone is interested.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NnvPjqtp50s
Also, that not a single person mentioned LS swap lol!
I've been say'n this for years.
I can remember driving a half 'race car' to and from work, it was a ball for a 'minute'.
If coyotes were done at 500hp (assuming you are speaking flywheel), you think that is far less than a 363?
I'd say the max numbers are probably close, but surely the coyote will be a better street setup.
It's not 2015 anymore, where coyote donors are 8k+ and swap parts are few and far between. Options are plentiful and the research is done.
You can do a swap without even worrying about any custom parts as if you were building it from a set of directions.
Pushrod pricing has risen and coyote donors and parts have fallen, making it a much better option than it was 5+ years ago.
If it's a street driver someone is after, i think there is pretty much no way the 363 does it better than a coyote. Not to mention, the coyote setup will probably make more average hp (which is why it will surely drive better in traffic).
To be clear, i have not always been the biggest coyote advocate, the engines were expensive so were the parts associated with it, just not the same as it once was.
I still get the ich for a high rpm NA 363, then i come to my senses and realize i'd be building something worse.
Now when you get into power adders, that could change things, coyote power adders are crazy expensive.
I have no idea where you are finding Coyotes cheaper than they were before the whole BS pandemic but all I can find is more expensive donors and parts.
Used swap motors with trans and engine control were $8K to $9K and now are north of $12K.
Crate motor with the 10 speed and engine management went from a little over $15K to now more than $20K.
My whole F100 build is around the Coyote with a 10R80 so I’ve been watching the prices. You still need to deal with the power steering pump issue but most solve that with a Volvo electric pump and controller. You should also move to swap the oil pump gears out to the billet ones.
A solid 363 Dart based build is going to be on par with a Coyote swap cost wise if you are starting from scratch. Will most likely make more hp NA and will definitely make more torque.
Used swap motors with trans and engine control were $8K to $9K and now are north of $12K.
Crate motor with the 10 speed and engine management went from a little over $15K to now more than $20K.
My whole F100 build is around the Coyote with a 10R80 so I’ve been watching the prices. You still need to deal with the power steering pump issue but most solve that with a Volvo electric pump and controller. You should also move to swap the oil pump gears out to the billet ones.
A solid 363 Dart based build is going to be on par with a Coyote swap cost wise if you are starting from scratch. Will most likely make more hp NA and will definitely make more torque.
I've seen a lot of folks that wrapped their cars around various solid objects and want to pay off the car by selling the drive. 
More of the "I no wut 1 got" syndrome.
More of the "I no wut 1 got" syndrome.
My vote is for the Dart 363. Everything about them is wicked. With a 205 head and a custom cam you would have an awesome engine
Coyote cylinder heads will out flow all SBF inline valve heads stock.
RPM is power.
1K power is easy with nothing more than Billet oil pump gears and a power adder.
A 1K power Coyote will always have better idle/driveability/fuel economy than a 1K power SBF.
A 1K power Coyote will NEVER sound as awesome as a 1K power SBF.
RPM is power.
1K power is easy with nothing more than Billet oil pump gears and a power adder.
A 1K power Coyote will always have better idle/driveability/fuel economy than a 1K power SBF.
A 1K power Coyote will NEVER sound as awesome as a 1K power SBF.
To clarify, I was talking about 500 rwhp coyotes running E85, revving over 8k RPM, and squeezing everything they can out of it. I'm not a coyote expert... My best friend is pretty savvy on them, and had just such a car. 500 rwhp from a 363 is TFS 11R 205cc heads, or AFR 205s, a mild cam, and the right combo of parts away on pump gas. I've seen dynos go closer to 600rwhp with a carb, more RPM, and more aggression. If a factory crate motor that cost the same and made 900 hp with driveability came out, I'd definitely understand the argument. The Coyote isn't that.
Been hearing the driveability argument forever... 4.6 SOHC, DOHC, LS swaps, and on and on with each new engine that comes forth, and I'm not interested in it. I LOVE the driveability of all of my cars. Is a 4 cyl Accord's better? Sure... Does that argument tempt me in the least? Nope. Likewise with the 'yote.
You sure? A quick look seems to indicate coyote heads flowing around 280-290 CFM on tge intake while AFR 205s flow upwards at 320 CFM, granted at what I would consider to be radical lift.
I guess the Renegade version of the AFR flows even more:
I'll grant the low-end of lift shows significant outperformance. On the high end, not so much. In any case, is this what we care about? The Coyote has 20% less displacement to make up for, and there's no reason an NA Dart build has to give 20% peak RPM.
I'll grant the low-end of lift shows significant outperformance. On the high end, not so much. In any case, is this what we care about? The Coyote has 20% less displacement to make up for, and there's no reason an NA Dart build has to give 20% peak RPM.
So Ford makes a crate engine that makes 580 HP on pump gas NA, with a warranty. I don't think it's unreasonable to get even more out of a Coyote from a respected engine builder who isn't held to the same marketing standards and warranty standards as Ford. Granted, Ford's is much higher in the price range than what most would say is respectable here.
Well hell, if we're going to go down this road:
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