Another Gt Goes Down - Defective Heads!!!

Longhorn94 · Sep 1, 2005

tomustang said:
I don't see why someone would file a lawsuit with Ford over this. If it's going to be regular occurance then ford will do testing and decide on a recall, no different that any other company will do. Since there's not hundreds of this instance happening I would blame it on a few rush productions other than faulty products.

i agree and i hope it doesnt come to that. i dont want to file suit against Ford. i just want to be made whole...meaning that my car is either bought back or replaced. i shouldnt be damaged or have a car that is less valuable because of a mistake Ford made.

tomustang · Sep 1, 2005

Longhorn94 said:
its called product liability. they sold a defective product. the warranty isnt the only set of rules or guidelines that are controlling here. there are civil laws that also protect us from manufacturing defects such as this and the resulting damage or loss that occurs therefrom. if you need me to explain more

The company also has rights too, that allow them to fix a problem with your car, which in fact is a string of products, not just one. Just because (example) an axle bearing wasn't packed before it left the assembly line doesn't mean they scrap the car over it, piece by piece your car is worth $40,000+ and it's not something you can just trade in for one or even a few issues.

*Edit - Longhorn94, I'm not trying to flame you but, insted of replying to every post seperately you can edit around and put it all in one post, it saves bandwidth.

Longhorn94 · Sep 1, 2005

tomustang said:
The company also has rights too, that allow them to fix a problem with your car, which in fact is a string of products, not just one. Just because (example) an axle bearing wasn't packed before it left the assembly line doesn't mean they scrap the car over it, piece by piece your car is worth $40,000+ and it's not something you can just trade in for one or even a few issues.

i agree to a point. it depends on the nature of the problem. is it a manufacturing defect? is it one that taints or stigmatizes that particular car? does it hurt its value? i think we would all agree that a faulty axle is different than having to have heads replaces at 12k miles.

but you are right the company has rights. and im not trying to put Ford or anyone out of business. as a matter of fact, it is mho that if Ford stepped up on problems like this and just bought the car back without any fight or fuss that they would increase the value of their cars and they would have more repeat customers.

as is, it makes me only want to buy cars from companies that i kno will protect my investment in that car. hopefully, ford will do that. i will keep you informed.

DraftHorsePower · Sep 1, 2005

I don't think you NEED a new car, thats retarded. I don't even think they would have to buy back yours, but that would be a little more viable option. What i could see is having them extend your warranty.

This is the 1st run of the car. Of course weird crap is going to happen to it, THAT my friend, is the exact reason why we all have warranties. I don't see any reason why this should diminish the value of your car. I had a 99 that had OODLES of transmission problems starting at about 3,000 miles, and they worked on it about 13 times before finally just replacing the entire transmission. It then worked, i was happy, everyone was happy, i sold the car 6 years later at blue book price. Tranny worked fine ever since and the car had 181,000 miles when i sold it. That was a first run mustang year too. ***** happens, you gotta deal with it, if you had higher expectations, you should have waited for an 06.

Also, i can't really see considering a car an "investment". you will never get the amount of money you paid for it back out of it.

Longhorn94 · Sep 1, 2005

thanks to all who have been supportive. as of this morning and based on the research and info I provided to him, my customer relations rep at Covert Ford has recommended to Ford that they buy back the vehicle with a mileage offset. that is perfectly acceptable to me!!!!

let me say again that I am thrilled with the manner in which Covert Ford has handled this. they are the best! now its up to Ford.

I will keep you guys updated.

wht-v6-vert · Sep 1, 2005

I think this is the most fascinating thread I’ve ever read on a car forum. Poor longhorn is vilified because of his profession. If a schoolteacher wrote in with the same issue he (or she) would receive nothing but sympathy.

Ford isn’t in business to make any of us happy; their purpose is generating dividends for share holders. They do what they have to do, and if longhorn’s saber rattling can intimidate them into a better settlement, that’s great. More power to him.

The assumption by many of the writers on this thread that there is a moral or ethical issue hiding somewhere in all of this is the pinnacle of naiveté. Longhorn was doing the Mustang community a service when he solicited input from other owners with similar problems. Creating a “class” for a class action suit benefits all of the plaintiffs, particularly the potential plaintiffs without the resources to go after Ford alone.

It is remarkable how the media has conditioned average Americans to react negatively to lawyers, particularly trial lawyers. Tort law was created to provide regulation of providers of goods and services by weeding out the bad apples. We have no other way to provide reasonable regulation in many industries in this country. In a twisted bit of irony, filing lawsuits is your patriotic duty.

No, I’m not a lawyer; I work for a software company.

vicmeldrew · Sep 1, 2005

Longhorn94 said:
My 05 Black GT is having the same problems that happened to TicketMeRedGT. His thread can be found at

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=526716

I bought my GT new at COVERT FORD in Austin, Texas back in February and it has approximately 12,000 miles on it now. The car was at idle, it surged and died. An engine light came on and it started to idle rough. I took it in and they said it was the coil and spark plug in one cylinder. They replaced the coil and plug without success. Next, they thought it was a valve sticking so they replaced the valves and the valve springs. That didnt work. Next, they got on the "FORD HOTLINE" and tried several things without luck. And now Ford is overnighting a new head. They have had the car for 7 days now.

My service guy told me that they still dont know what the problem is. That they havent seen this on the 05 GTs before. And that Ford wasnt sure what the problem was either.

I had not seen Ticket's thread so I took them at their word. Now after doing some research on defective cylinder heads I found the article on blueovalnews.com about the stop ship order regarding 05 3V 4.6l engines and the fact that at least one other car has been replaced for the exact same defect. AND THEY ACTED LIKE THEY DIDNT KNOW??? The fact that they feigned ignorance really pisses me off!

I am not happy with them just replacing the head. I will not accept that. I will not accept a new engine either. The car's value will be irreparably damaged and diminished.

I am a trial lawyer and will not hesitate to file a lawsuit against Ford if they fail to take care of this situation. I want the car bought back or a replacement car. This was a known defect before the cars were shipped and its obvious that their inspections were not thorough enough. I am not willing to accept the loss of value to my car due to their mistake.

Let me be real clear. I do not want to file suit against Ford. I want to work this out with Ford and Covert Ford and have them either buy back the car or replace it with a new one. I would much rather get this done with respect and courtesy than forcing them through a lawsuit. But I will not accept anything less than a buyback or replacement. This was a manufacturing defect. One that they knew about and failed to catch.

Hopefully they will do the right thing and replace the car.

IS ANYONE ELSE HAVING THIS PROBLEM? Maybe a class action might wake them up! I hope not but it looks like they had to file one over problems with some truck heads.

I spoke to the Covert Ford Dealer's Customer Relations Manager and he is helping me and has been wonderful. They put me in a Ford 500 to drive while this issue is resolved. I will say it again. I want to work this out amicably. I love my car and want to keep it forever. But i will not accept anything less than a replacement car or a buy back.

With this being a known problem before any cars were shipped, I cant imagine Ford not stepping up and doing the right thing.

I will keep you guys updated on this thread. If you have any suggestions or ideas about who to contact and how to go about getting a buy back or replacement vehicle let me know. Im always open to new ideas.

If the guys at Ford read this, they have my contact info at Covert Ford in Austin. IF you dont contact me, dont worry about it. I will be in contact with you soon.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

Bit of conflict in this part of your post dont you think?:

I love my car and want to keep it forever. But i will not accept anything less than a replacement car or a buy back.

gp001 · Sep 1, 2005

wht-v6-vert said:
I think this is the most fascinating thread I’ve ever read on a car forum. Poor longhorn is vilified because of his profession. If a schoolteacher wrote in with the same issue he (or she) would receive nothing but sympathy.

Ford isn’t in business to make any of us happy; their purpose is generating dividends for share holders. They do what they have to do, and if longhorn’s saber rattling can intimidate them into a better settlement, that’s great. More power to him.

The assumption by many of the writers on this thread that there is a moral or ethical issue hiding somewhere in all of this is the pinnacle of naiveté. Longhorn was doing the Mustang community a service when he solicited input from other owners with similar problems. Creating a “class” for a class action suit benefits all of the plaintiffs, particularly the potential plaintiffs without the resources to go after Ford alone.

It is remarkable how the media has conditioned average Americans to react negatively to lawyers, particularly trial lawyers. Tort law was created to provide regulation of providers of goods and services by weeding out the bad apples. We have no other way to provide reasonable regulation in many industries in this country. In a twisted bit of irony, filing lawsuits is your patriotic duty.

No, I’m not a lawyer; I work for a software company.

I reacted to his statements not his profession

ctfordguy · Sep 1, 2005

Lawyers have the get rid of them all reputation because they are a drain on the economy.

They do not add value to any thing.

Criminal lawyers, both sides, are more of a service that is needed to better quality of life, similar to police.

Fourth Horseman · Sep 1, 2005

ctfordguy said:
Lawyers have the get rid of them all reputation because they are a drain on the economy.

They do not add value to any thing.

With respect, I disagree. Having people resolve disputes in court make a lot of sense to me. Without that means of conflict resolution I'm not sure that a civil society is possible. Without lawyers to assist us in this process, how could it ever function?

Anyway, this is all really :OT: I apologize for adding to the thread derailment.

Jenns01TA · Sep 1, 2005

My larger point which has obviously been overlooked is that he was seeking to recruit individuals for a potential class action lawsuit and this is not the appropriate venue for that.

I would not have commented unless he had indicated that was indeed his intent.

It is akin to sales and solicitation. No matter what he called it.

Jennifer

jfischer · Sep 1, 2005

OBleedingMe said:
TWho would YOU call if Ford refused to cover your defective heads and replace your motor or replace your car under warranty?

They're not going to leave him with a dead car. That's what the warranty is for!

Ford will replace the heads, or the motor if necessary, to make it right. They sure as hell won't give him a new car over it or buy it back, and I wouldn't expect them to. Maybe if it had 100 miles on it, but not 12,000. If I had a car at 12,000 miles and I was gonna get a brand-new engine, that wouldn't be a bad deal IMHO.

Pliskin · Sep 1, 2005

We has a guy like this at our dealership (just a slight bit of difference). He had a 2005 Super Duty that for some reason kept having transmission problems. Personally some of us service guys thought he was jacking it up. We've replaced it several times but had no evidence. So in the end this guy goes to the head of the dealership and gets a buy back. I think he was jacking around in his truck WAY too much but knows the right people and plays the right cards. When he brought it in some times we found NOTHING wrong with it. It came in at least once a week. But I guess they just wanted to get rid of him.

In this case I could see why he'd want a new car but only because he's had to deal with it over and over again. I think thats half service's fault. They should AT LEAST drop a new engine in it if they cant get it back to him. I don't think this would constitute a new car all together.

On another note:
Just got a black convertable GT in today in our service department. Crunched up with some replaced body pieces and paint that felt like sand paper. The interior was in pieces. Red and black leather torne off, plasic from the doors missing, back seats gone. It was like someone stole the car and stripped it. It was sad to see. Poor guy but dang....poor car. I still loved driving it though. Drove pretty good. It was a real tease. I guess the guy just brought it in for us to put on some new parts or something.

Klay · Sep 2, 2005

Well I don't really agree with you jennstang about him asking if anyone else has had this same problem is similar to soliciting sales. Stangnet has as you know has people who own mustangs. So logicially, if you wanted to find others who have similar problems to yourself, you would come here and find out. Him asking if anyone has these problems in case he needs to file a class action lawsuit is no different than someone coming here asking if its normal that there brakes squeak because their dealer told them it was normal and they don't believe them. He just wants to help others out in case this problem is indeed widespread. The more people who get together the better the chance they have of winning.

Now with that said, I don't think he needs to get a new mustang because the only thing wrong with the car is the heads (possibly the whole motor). That means all the other components, transmission, brakes, frame of the car etc. are all still good and in good condition. Getting a new motor will not lower the value of your car and I don't see why you would think that. Do you think someone won't pay the set value of your car because it has got a new motor? Last time I checked having a new motor on a car after it has got some miles on it nets you more money that if the motor was the original. The only reason I would think ford does owe you a new car is to make sure you stay happy with them and will buy from them in the future. I think it would be smart for ford to do this for you since any money they lose on this deal will definately be made up in the future due to your future business and other people you tell about the good experience you had with them.

QCStang · Sep 2, 2005

Jenns05Stang said:
My larger point which has obviously been overlooked is that he was seeking to recruit individuals for a potential class action lawsuit and this is not the appropriate venue for that.

I would not have commented unless he had indicated that was indeed his intent.

It is akin to sales and solicitation. No matter what he called it.

Jennifer

Awesome answer Jen.

A couple of things bother me about the original post as well.

The poster has never posted before. This really bugs me - someone who never posted on Stangnet - and I see it often - to make major complaints about a Mustang recently purchased.

A lawyer that doesn't drive a Beemer?

He put 12,000 miles on the car. No problem before? Did he blow it up with N2O at the track? Did he drive it REALLY hard?

Last year at the local SVT dealer, a guy was screaming about a broken axle and differentia on his '04 Cobral. Said he was just driving it and *BOOM*. What the guy didn't know was the dealer's mechanics were trolling the local boards. Apparently, he had the car at the local dragstrip, and when the green light came on, he had it in Reverse! He then slammed it into a forward gear, completely destroying the rear end! He even had pictures posted! When presented with this info - and the very large bill - he screamed blue murder. Funny thing was, although he abused both the car and warranty, he called Ford of Canada - and they paid the bill - although he wanted a new Cobra!

Enough ranting. Jen's answer, I believe - speaks volumes.

topless beach · Sep 2, 2005

Hmm; Let me see...you're saying that you were able to work it out thru normal channels ? Wow-what a novel idea. Talk; discuss; negotiate--that's what normal people do first.

That's why your post threatening lawsuits ticked people off; like it or not many people have the perception that lawyers would rather sue than have sex, and your post seems to confirm that. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I'm sure you have adifferent one.

wht-v6-vert · Sep 2, 2005

I can’t see the distinction between commiserating over technical malfunctions and “soliciting” interest in group resolution of a specific problem.

Longhorn was doing you a favor and many of you are too stupid to realize it.

Jenns01TA · Sep 2, 2005

Please Review my post #8 of the thread which has Jason's initial post that he then deleted once I called him on it.

You see whit_v6_vert, he has not responded back because what he did is against his Code of Ethics that he swears to when he took his Bar and became a liscensed attorney. He admitted it and when I reminded him in my eloquent way, he tried to delete his post and added the rolling eye smilie face.

He knows what he did is unethical and could get him in serious trouble.

If he would have simply posted like any other owner of a Mustang and then suggested a probable scenario of a Class Action Lawsuit fine... But he crossed the line by admitting his profression and then asking the questions that he did. It is solicitation for business by incitment tactics. Which is a BIG no-no.

You do not have to agree with me, but I am 100% correct.

Can we move on to a new thread now? This is getting old and I would prefer to talk tech then legalese.

We can start a new thread..Head problems with the 3-V V-8..anyone heard of them...

Jenn

Oh and Jason..as one mustang owner to another I am thrilled that you were able to get some resolution on the GT. On a personal level, it does upset me when someone is unhappy with their vehicle, but in the end, this was handled in the most appropriate manner - internally - one-on-one with the dealership and Ford.

Longhorn94 · Sep 2, 2005

jen: you are, once again, completely wrong. first, my post was not a solicitation. it was an informative post for other owners and also one seeking information to find out how wide spread the problem is. I don't like class actions and have never filed one. If this were a widespread problem, which it isn't, then there might be a need for a CLA. but it wouldn't be filed or handled by me. however, I referred to it in my initial post because it could be a possibility and I wanted to make sure Ford paid attention. It had absolutely nothing to do with soliciting business. And its laughable you would think so.

next, I never admitted you were right. the posts I deleted were only sidetracking the thread and after further reflection, I decided to edit and keep the thread on point. when i said "i posted that for a reason" i meant i posted the entire thread and the CLA reference for the reasons cited above...ie to share with my fellow owners, to find out if others were experiencing the same problem and to make sure i had Ford's attention. you completely misunderstood my post. you were wrong then about me soliciting members for a CLA and you are wrong now. it doesn't get any simpler.

third, you are wrong about what I posted being against any rules. even if I was looking for members for a CLA, which I wasn't, soliciting potential members by making a post on a car forum is completely and absolutely permissible. it doesn't violate one single rule of ethics or any of the disciplinary rules of my state. I don't know what you do for a living, but its obvious you don't know the rules governing lawyers and advertising/soliciting.

that said, you sound like a nice and intelligent girl and i appreciate your well wishes. I hope Ford follows my dealer's recommendation.

now back to the thread, no I have not ever beaten on the car. no mods to the car whatsoever. never been wrecked or to the track. no nos. no nothing.

I'm not trying to get something out of this other than what Ford owes me: a car without major manufacturing defects. And apparently, the FORD DEALERSHIP AGREES WITH ME!

thanks for the support to those who have provided it. my thread was meant as informative and helpful to other owners and also to lay the ground work if further action was necessary with Ford. I expected it to be well received and supported

Alec · Sep 2, 2005

tomustang said:
I don't see why someone would file a lawsuit with Ford over this. If it's going to be regular occurance then ford will do testing and decide on a recall, no different that any other company will do. Since there's not hundreds of this instance happening I would blame it on a few rush productions other than faulty products.

Recall!! Ask the folks at LS1.com circa 2001 about recalls.
Hell look at this http://www.pistonslap.com/ and this http://www.nissantireproblems.com/. and I'm sure there are many others. Man, this brand loyalty stuff goes beyond all rational.
These forums are great for "You mean I'm not the only one?" factor. How else can we know when the dealer says "it's normal", it's not normal! These cars are under warranty. Make FoMoCo Fix or Buy back. I will never get yanked around by a car maker again.
For those that have problems, don't let the love of your car blind you.

BTW a few in production terms may mean thousands.

Another Gt Goes Down - Defective Heads!!!

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