any experience with BAMA Chips w/ a blower?

88gt373 · Feb 26, 2012

whats up folks.... i just got a used vortech V1 im waiting to install... i still need a few things to make it ready to install.. but im thinking about getting the BAMA chip but im told they dont work with supercharged cars... just N/A and bottle fed stangs up to 100 shot..

after all is installed on my car this is what ill have:
cobra intake
65mm tb w/spacer
stock cam 1.72:1 RRs
vortech V1 w/ 10lb pullies and BOV
80mm MAF/30lb injectors
373 gears/t5z

can they make a tune for that? or what other tuning options should i look at. im trying to avoid spending the money at a dyno shop... thanks

BlownFiveLiter · Feb 27, 2012

If they don't deal with blowers, they probably won't make you a tune. Honestly, you really want to see an A/F ratio on that thing while it's being tuned. Head gaskets are just enough of a PITA to change that you only want to do it once (or not at all if still running stock heads). Do enough damage and you're replacing pistons.

Noobz347 · Feb 27, 2012

88gt373 said:
can they make a tune for that? or what other tuning options should i look at. im trying to avoid spending the money at a dyno shop... thanks

I gotta say that it never ceases to amaze me at the number of times I see folks put thousands of dollars into a blower setup and want to skimp on the tune.

Do you really want to entrust your entire engine combo to a tune from some dude that's never even laid eyes on your car?

88gt373 · Feb 27, 2012

Noobz347 said:
I gotta say that it never ceases to amaze me at the number of times I see folks put thousands of dollars into a blower setup and want to skimp on the tune.

Do you really want to entrust your entire engine combo to a tune from some dude that's never even laid eyes on your car?

your absolutely right.. id rather get a tune by a pro at a shop but the guys around my area charge top dollar.. and being the fact i dont have too much cash in my whole set up itd be hard to justify 1k spend at a tuning shop.. i know the best way to get it tuned is at a place with the right tools but i figured id explore any other options.. i was looking at the MSD box that retards timing and is CD with a rev limiter.. but i kinda dont wanna go msd... any other alternatives outside of a dyno shop?

David Pepiton · Feb 28, 2012

honestly not getting the right tune is only going to hurt you and may cost you your whole engine on one of my last project cars i spent 10k in performance parts from a blower and custom liquid to air intercooler 1 off headers the setup last me about 30k miles and my LTFT were so messed up i was supprised it lasted that long. honestly 1-2k for tuning isnt bad at all.

Noobz347 · Feb 28, 2012

88gt373 said:
your absolutely right.. id rather get a tune by a pro at a shop but the guys around my area charge top dollar.. and being the fact i dont have too much cash in my whole set up itd be hard to justify 1k spend at a tuning shop.. i know the best way to get it tuned is at a place with the right tools but i figured id explore any other options.. i was looking at the MSD box that retards timing and is CD with a rev limiter.. but i kinda dont wanna go msd... any other alternatives outside of a dyno shop?

David Pepiton said:
honestly not getting the right tune is only going to hurt you and may cost you your whole engine on one of my last project cars i spent 10k in performance parts from a blower and custom liquid to air intercooler 1 off headers the setup last me about 30k miles and my LTFT were so messed up i was supprised it lasted that long. honestly 1-2k for tuning isnt bad at all.

Now for my evil side:

$1000+ for some time on the dyno and a tune is OUTRAGEOUS! If you live in Beverly Hills and are looking for a 1000 HP tune on your Bentley, then maybe I could see that. My last tune cost me less than $500 and it included chip, dyno time, and tune.

In reference to your MSD box with timing retard plan... That is NOT a tune.

A tune will include (but is not limited to) -

Synching your MAF with your injectors and EEC, so that they are speaking the same language in regards to the fuel requirtements of your motor.

Building both open loop and closed loop fuel tables that are specific to the air/fuel requirement of your motor.

Building spark tables that coincide with your air/fuel management that include base, curve, and total timing.

Once these things are done, then you can think about using the retard on an aftermarket spark box to ensure safety with boost retard, stage limiters, and rev limiting etc. (none of which has anything to do with ensuring proper combustion so that things don't come apart as you head down the road).

On a side note... I think your injectors are too small for the combo you have listed in the OP.

Blown88GT · Feb 28, 2012

30lb injectors are fine for your combo. They will support 480hp.
http://www.cnlperformance.com/MAF_info3.html

88gt373 · Feb 29, 2012

i just ask about the MSD box because the V1 kit originally came with the Vortech/MSD timing box but i didnt get it with my deal since it was used.. and i got the FMU with the deal.. and from what i have read about some guys pretty much installing the kit as a whole and drive it... i know a tune is the best way, i was just exploring other options if thats possible..

NOOBZ: when you got your tune with a chip... do you have the ability to switch from different maps? is that a possibility to get a "switchable" chip? what injectors do you think would be more adequate for the set up? a buddy of mine uses 42#ers. his runs great but his is build for track runs only and has waay more HP than im aiming for...

Noobz347 · Feb 29, 2012

Blown88GT said:
30lb injectors are fine for your combo. They will support 480hp.
http://www.cnlperformance.com/MAF_info3.html

Take at least 50 HP off that rating for a blown app and that is assuming you're running the injector at or near 100% duty cycle. Ideally, you want to be at 80% duty cycle or below.

88gt373 said:
i just ask about the MSD box because the V1 kit originally came with the Vortech/MSD timing box but i didnt get it with my deal since it was used.. and i got the FMU with the deal.. and from what i have read about some guys pretty much installing the kit as a whole and drive it... i know a tune is the best way, i was just exploring other options if thats possible..

NOOBZ: when you got your tune with a chip... do you have the ability to switch from different maps? is that a possibility to get a "switchable" chip? what injectors do you think would be more adequate for the set up? a buddy of mine uses 42#ers. his runs great but his is build for track runs only and has waay more HP than im aiming for...

I do have a switch chip with two banks and an, "off" position. The two tunes I run are nearly identical with one exception. The first tune is a closed loop tune, and the second is a commanded AFR open loop tune with no EEC adaptability disabled.

88gt373 · Feb 29, 2012

Noobz347 said:
Take at least 50 HP off that rating for a blown app and that is assuming you're running the injector at or near 100% duty cycle. Ideally, you want to be at 80% duty cycle or below.

I do have a switch chip with two banks and an, "off" position. The two tunes I run are nearly identical with one exception. The first tune is a closed loop tune, and the second is a commanded AFR open loop tune with no EEC adaptability disabled.

what kind of chip do you have? i deff want a switchable chip. i didnt realize you could put a opened loop and closed loop system and make it switchable like that... a commanded AFR tune sounds pretty nice. im going to call the shop around here and get a better idea of price and what i need... and ill probly go up to 36#ers since price isnt too different.. i got everything ready except my fuel system so ill see what they say is optimal. how much HP do you think ill have after all is done with a street 91 octane tune? my goal is 400rwhp with 12lbs of boost is that realistic with my set up?

BlownFiveLiter · Feb 29, 2012

Go with 42's and you'll never have to worry about fuel.

88gt373 · Feb 29, 2012

BlownFiveLiter said:
Go with 42's and you'll never have to worry about fuel.

do i need to use the vortech FMU with that size? or would that be covered with a tune?

tannerc91gt · Mar 1, 2012

kind of off topic but to the op, Is that your car in your avatar?

Noobz347 · Mar 1, 2012

88gt373 said:
what kind of chip do you have? i deff want a switchable chip. i didnt realize you could put a opened loop and closed loop system and make it switchable like that... a commanded AFR tune sounds pretty nice. im going to call the shop around here and get a better idea of price and what i need... and ill probly go up to 36#ers since price isnt too different.. i got everything ready except my fuel system so ill see what they say is optimal. how much HP do you think ill have after all is done with a street 91 octane tune? my goal is 400rwhp with 12lbs of boost is that realistic with my set up?

I think you'll be dancing on the door of your HP goals. The only bottle neck I see in the combo on your original post are the heads, and cam (namely the heads). RWHP... I think you'll be in the 340 to 360 neck of the woods generating 400+ at the crank.

I'll can get you the brand and model number off of the chip but it wouldn't really do you much good. Each shop has their specific brands/models that they deal with because the software they get to program these things is not universal. Get with your tuner and find out what they sell and deal with. Tell him that you want a chip with two or more tune banks and see what he quotes you for price.

88gt373 said:
do i need to use the vortech FMU with that size? or would that be covered with a tune?

You will NOT need an FMU with 42lb injectors. Moreover, a set of 42s will cover you for future mods as well (i.e. the forementioned heads/cam and possibly a better intake down the road).

My point is that since you're going to expend money for injectors... you might as well invest that money just one time. The 42s can take you into the limitations of the block on pump gas.

88gt373 · Mar 1, 2012

88gt373 said:
do i need to use the vortech FMU with that size? or would that be covered with a tune?

its not my actual car but its exactly what mine looks like from that angle; minus the wheels (have have 17' silver cobras..) and i have chrome tail pipes ... i wasnt sure how to shrink my pics so i googled "grey 88 mustang" and it was on there...

so i called the shop near my house and they gave me a general quote of 650 to 950 and theyll do a couple runs, give me a chip with two banks (or 4 for more $), proper spark plus and minor associated blower parts.. they are supposed to be the best in the area and the guy seems to know his stuff.. he said i should be able to see about 380-400hp at the crank but said my weak point is my crank/rods so he will tune conservatively. he said he recommends 36lb injectors for what he has in mind, but like NOOBZ said, he said there will be room for future upgrades.. Im juiced about this set up !!! after this im gonna need to get a better tranz...

tannerc91gt · Mar 1, 2012

It was a members car on here that burned to the ground. Just curious as it was eerily similar

Blown88GT · Mar 2, 2012

88gt373 said:
...can they make a tune for that? or what other tuning options should i look at. im trying to avoid spending the money at a dyno shop... thanks

People raced these things for years before there were dyno shops or tunes or any of it.

You can't just say 42's are better. It will depend a lot on what MAF he is using.
http://www.cnlperformance.com/MAF_info3.html

88gt373 · Mar 2, 2012

Blown88GT said:
People raced these things for years before there were dyno shops or tunes or any of it.

You can't just say 42's are better. It will depend a lot on what MAF he is using.
http://www.cnlperformance.com/MAF_info3.html

thats a good article everyone should read.... the guys guy at RPM said that 42lb (actually 40.52lbs and stock FP) should be set at around 75% duty cycle and FP bumped up to 45ish psi (making injectors run at 42lbs)... he said a the CL 80mm mas with the proper sample tube and stock MAF sensor should suffice... i just need to get sn95 fuel rails and a big fuel pump... what do you guys think about the one 340lph from FORD ANDERSON ? im not going to replace the lines and id rather have more flow than less.

Blown88GT · Mar 3, 2012

The 340 doesn't seem any different from the Walbro 255H.
http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fpspecs.html
You don't need larger fuel rails or lines for a 10lb blower. I have a 13 lb blower, which had 19lb injectors & a 12:1 FMU, now 30lb & 6:1. I also have an intercooler which helps a lot.
The C&L requires a minimum of 6" of straight pipe in front of it, or you will flow turbulence. I have been fighting this issue & have redesigned the inlet to provide 10-12", while still providing the proper size & location for a BOV. Mine is blow-thru, not draw thru.
You can compare the 2 graphs, but will have to convert lph to gph or vice versa. 4 lit = approx 1 gal
The upper end of the graphs are what you are concerned with, at 100 psi, both flow about the same.
Without a "tune" you still will probably need an FMU. Stock FPR adds 1 lb for 1 psi of boost. You will need about a 6:1 FMU which adds 6 psi for 1 lb of boost, assuming the pump can provide the flow at that pressure.
BTW, if you want to edit or shrink pics, get Fastone Picture Viewer 4.6 at http://www.faststone.org/
It's free for personal use.

88gt373 · Mar 5, 2012

Blown88GT said:
The 340 doesn't seem any different from the Walbro 255H.
http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fpspecs.html
You don't need larger fuel rails or lines for a 10lb blower. I have a 13 lb blower, which had 19lb injectors & a 12:1 FMU, now 30lb & 6:1. I also have an intercooler which helps a lot.
The C&L requires a minimum of 6" of straight pipe in front of it, or you will flow turbulence. I have been fighting this issue & have redesigned the inlet to provide 10-12", while still providing the proper size & location for a BOV. Mine is blow-thru, not draw thru.
You can compare the 2 graphs, but will have to convert lph to gph or vice versa. 4 lit = approx 1 gal
The upper end of the graphs are what you are concerned with, at 100 psi, both flow about the same.
Without a "tune" you still will probably need an FMU. Stock FPR adds 1 lb for 1 psi of boost. You will need about a 6:1 FMU which adds 6 psi for 1 lb of boost, assuming the pump can provide the flow at that pressure.
BTW, if you want to edit or shrink pics, get Fastone Picture Viewer 4.6 at http://www.faststone.org/
It's free for personal use.

Thanks for clarifying that... there is a walbro 190lph now but i know it'll need to be upgraded. its getting kinda noisy.. im planning on getting a new gas tank kit, when i purchased the car it was sitting for a while and after starting it up it clogged the filter and sucked up some crud thru the pump.. thats great to know i can keep my stock fuel rails..
do you have a pic of your intake tube setup? when i bought my kit it came with the stock vortech tube (sc to tb) and a modied one that has a BOV provision that recirculates the air back into the inlet line. (if you can imagine that set up) the seller also have me a MAF housing but havent really checked it out and figured id use the C&L.
if you can show me your set up thatd be great.. i have heard of issues with the vortech set up out of the box... ill post pics of what i got.

oh, and thanks for the pic viewer!!!!

any experience with BAMA Chips w/ a blower?

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