Any harm in running a standard rotation WP?

Mustang5L5 · Jul 30, 2008

I want to accomplish this

View attachment 309240

But i think I read somewhere that this direction doesn't cool the head efficiently or something else along those lines?

WHat vehicles with 5.0 engines had standard rotation pumps?

Darkwriter77 · Jul 30, 2008

Mustang5L5 said:
I want to accomplish this

View attachment 309222

But i think I read somewhere that this direction doesn't cool the head efficiently or something else along those lines?

WHat vehicles with 5.0 engines had standard rotation pumps?

As I always understood it, the two common water pumps on 302's are either the aluminum-bodied ones used mostly on the serpentine-belted vehicles ('86+ Fox, Panther, MN12, F-series etc.) or the iron-bodied ones used mostly on older V-belt motors (like '82 and older). The iron body pumps were the standard-rotation ones that have a different lookin' shaft (longer, more exposed from main pump body) than the aluminum body pumps. Obvious way to tell other than looks is if a magnet sticks to it, it's probably an iron pump and, thus, standard-rotation.

Not 100% sure, but I think the shaft length difference might also relate to the difference in pulley setup. Look at some pics of older 302's and see how far the middle of the pulley on a V-belt setup sticks out compared to a serpentine-belt water pump pulley. But either way, they're pretty different if you lay 'em down side-by-side on a counter.

Go to Autozone and have 'em pull the water pump for, say, an '89 Crown Vic and then an '82 Crown Vic and compare. Far as I know, the pump used on Panther 302's is pretty much a direct crossover to the same ones used in Foxes through most of the 80's (up until Town Cars switched to the 4.6L in '91 and the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis in '92).

As far as water flow being more effective one way or the other ... I dunno if it had anything to do with efficiency, really, so much as just the way the belt needed to be routed on a serpentine application VS a V-belt setup (counter-clockwise VS clockwise). You could (in theory - never tried, myself) physically bolt up the wrong water pump to any 302, but if the pump vanes are turning the wrong direction, you're not going to get any significant coolant flow going on (if any).

FWIW, the fan blade direction changed at the same time too, of course, when they started using reverse-rotation water pumps.

LiquidGT · Jul 30, 2008

You can get a WP for a 88-91 Crown Vic, but I think you'll need to clearance the pulley holes so they match up on the pump.

I found these on the internet; heres a look at the impellers and the cavities. The reverse impeller does look more efficient though.
Reverse

Standard

skunk21 · Jul 31, 2008

common mod when doing belt routing changes. 88-91 crown vic water pump will bolt right up. you will have to modify the pulley bolt pattern by drilling new holes or elongating the existing holes if you want to use the serpintine pulley. I think and truly believe the other stuff is a myth about the coolant flow, The only thing that would make sense if things warmed up after is the fan blade angle. most people doing this mod run electric fans but if you notice the pitch of the fan blade is set up to spin a certain direction, once you change the rotation you change how it draws in air. Look at the old metal fans on the standard rotation water pump stangs and pitch, size of the blades they are different, this would be the only thing I could think of that would different. The coolant flow path would be the same.

Mustang5L5 · Jul 31, 2008

Cool. Good to know. I'll pick one up.

I'm not worried about the pulley since i'll be machining a custom aluminum pulley like the '93 Cobra pulley myself...so i can drill out the matching bolt pattern.

I also have an e-fan.

I want to ditch the P/S, and this looks like a clean factory way to do it.

skunk21 · Jul 31, 2008

yeah Mike you will be all set, been itching to make that pulley now have ya ever since that thread .

BK_CAULEY · Jul 31, 2008

I highly suggest you get a manual rack.

slow95gt did this and at first you can turn the wheel with ease, but as time goes on all the fluid gets pushed out of the power assisted rack and it becomes very hard to turn.

68stang351 · Jul 31, 2008

One thing to watch out for when doing this is that the "D" shaped parts on the back of the water pump line up with the ones on the timing cover correctly. If you don't change the timing cover and you put an older pump on it with the "D" shaped ports rotated differently then you will have major leakage.

Don't ask me how I found that out.

Mustang5L5 · Jul 31, 2008

BK_CAULEY said:
I highly suggest you get a manual rack.

slow95gt did this and at first you can turn the wheel with ease, but as time goes on all the fluid gets pushed out of the power assisted rack and it becomes very hard to turn.

Well i was planning an entire manual rack conversion. I just hadn't decided to get a flaming river unit or a early model Fox manual rack. The car is a toy at this point, so daily driving it is not an issue really.

I am also planning an electric water pump down the road...so this may not even be an issue by that point

skunk21 · Jul 31, 2008

I know your isn't a daily so if money wont be an issue at some point I'd go with an electric wp. They are real nice and cool looking, I'm getting one down the road myself when I make the electric fan switch. The electric wp's are great for weekend cars even though some run them in daily drivers on the average they don't last has long. The flaming river racks are some real nice set ups, I read some good threads on these over on corral. The older fox ones are cheaper but the flaming river ones are nice and pretty trick also.

93 LX · Jul 31, 2008

just a note. ALL HO engines, 82-93 FOX car use the reverse rotation pump due to the serpetine belt setup. I know this to be true since I have had my 82 Capri RS 5.0L HO since day one and own my 93 since it was 3 years old. Same pump same belt setup.

skunk21 · Jul 31, 2008

93 LX said:
just a note. ALL HO engines, 82-93 FOX car use the reverse rotation pump due to the serpetine belt setup. I know this to be true since I have had my 82 Capri RS 5.0L HO since day one and own my 93 since it was 3 years old. Same pump same belt setup.

actually the serpentine belt came about on the fox mustang/capri 5.0. in 1979-1993. The reverse rotation pump also started at the same time. pre-79 mustang 5.0. are standard rotation wp v-belts and non-serpentine 5 liter vehicles are standard rotation wp's also.

Darkwriter77 · Jul 31, 2008

Ah. My mistake. I was thinking that Foxes started using serpentine belt setups at the same time they started using CFI and EFI motors.

Matts89LX5.0 · Jul 31, 2008

just get a standard rotation water pump for a 351, use your 302 pulley on it and your set. ran that short belt with my blower on my old 88 notchback

Mustang5L5 · Jul 31, 2008

SO what year 351 do i specify? '88 F350 for example?

Matts89LX5.0 · Jul 31, 2008

i think i got mine at an autozone. i just specified a standard rotation water pump for a 351. if you want something like edelbrock or another name brand, call up summit. they have everything you need in stock as well. i'm unsure about not properly cooling the heads, but i never had an issue with my supercharged car with twisted wedge aluminum heads.

Mustang5L5 · Jul 31, 2008

Well, i tried searching a few 351's and they all spec "clockwise" rotation.

Too tired so i'll search some more later

795.0pacecar · Jul 31, 2008

BK_CAULEY said:
I highly suggest you get a manual rack.

slow95gt did this and at first you can turn the wheel with ease, but as time goes on all the fluid gets pushed out of the power assisted rack and it becomes very hard to turn.

LOL, after I learned how power steering racks work, and rebuilt a few, I decided that using a power rack as a manual rack is incredibly dangerous.

Any harm in running a standard rotation WP?

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Any harm in running a standard rotation WP?

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