anyone put a j car.. r&p. in a 65-66

klg · Jan 20, 2008

i was considering a taurus r&p swap in my 65 . but everone says the gm j-car is a better way to go . so i guess my new question is does anyone have any info on this swap.also what cars are considered j cars-years name of cars--

skywalker · Jan 20, 2008

Who is everyone?

The j-car rack is going to require a fair amount of fabbing and will give you bump steer and a significant increase in turn radius.

My advice is go with a pre-fab rack. TCP preferably. Stay away from the Flaming River Rack (baaaad geometry->bump steer.) If you want to stick with the steering box though, flaming River maes excellent boxes.

yeloxr7 · Jan 23, 2008

skywalker said:
If you want to stick with the steering box though, flaming River maes excellent boxes.

The Borgeson box is better. Lower price, better warranty and great customer service.

http://ww2.borgeson.com/MANUAL STEERING/M-DIRECT-APPLICATIONS.htm#

skywalker · Jan 23, 2008

yeloxr7 said:
The Borgeson box is better. Lower price, better warranty and great customer service.

http://ww2.borgeson.com/MANUAL STEERING/M-DIRECT-APPLICATIONS.htm#

Why is the box better?

Iamdiffrnt · Jan 24, 2008

I bought the Borgeson box also, Basically for the reasons stated above. At the time there were a few negative comments about the quality of the Flaming River unit. Borgeson seems to maintain a good reputation, and their boxes are remanufactured in the USA as opposed to Flaming River's boxes being made in Argentina.

69gmachine · Jan 24, 2008

skywalker said:
Who is everyone?

The j-car rack is going to require a fair amount of fabbing and will give you bump steer and a significant increase in turn radius.

My advice is go with a pre-fab rack. TCP preferably. Stay away from the Flaming River Rack (baaaad geometry->bump steer.) If you want to stick with the steering box though, flaming River maes excellent boxes.

1. There is no reason why the GM J car rack will inherently result in bump steer. In fact, since the location of the mounting bolts necessitates that a centerlink of some sort be fabricated, the designer is free to place the pivot points wherever necessary (although that doesn't mean they do in fact know where best to place them).

2. Unless you're willing to take the time to understand the engineering design requirements, I'd have to agree with luke on a pre-fab rack kit as the better choice. Both Randall's Rack and RRS use the J car rack in their kits. Personally those are the only two J car kits I would consider if I didn't have both the financial and engineering resources to design my own... but that's just my .02.

3. IIRC, the rack to get is the 86-92(?) model from a Pontiac J car or Chevy Cavalier. The early racks had a seal leakage problem when cold.

Only you (KLG) can decide what's best for your application. It's your car, your wallet.

skywalker · Jan 24, 2008

My question as to why the Borgeson box is better has not been answered. Made in USA, while preferred doesn't make it better. Lower price and customer service neither. I had a flaming river unit on my '68. I liked it alot. A fair amount of convincing would be required to show me that another box is technically a better box.

As far as the r&p I apologize I confused the j-car rack with an end-take off unit. Althugh I've heard that Randall's Rack has some bumpsteer issues and I believe the j-car rack potentially limits turn radius, and the Taurus rack definitely does.

I stand by my recommendation of the TCP rack.

CanyonCarver515 · Jan 24, 2008

I have installed in my ’67 a Randall's Rack system. I believe that it is a GM J-car system (at least I was told).

Anyway my rack has given my car surgical-precision steering and improved handling beyond my wildest dreams. The car is lowered and I used to have bumpsteer problems with the stock setup.

Once the rack was installed it all went away.

pazur · Jan 25, 2008

I have r&p from 95 pontiac grand am, I have not installed it but it looks to fit quite well. why?
- grandam has only about 1/2 inch shorter spindle's rotating diameter, which improves turning radius compared to all other r&p systems I have heard of.
- tie rod ends fit to spindles (yet I don't know whether the overall steering rod length is OK). You can't use mustang's tie rod ends unless you fabricate new steering rods (which is by the way easy)
- power steering pump is in just right location. You need custom steering rod (the one between steering wheel and r&p unit) with two joints (one joint will not work). From any car with right diameter
- you can minimize the bumpsteer by correctly placing the r&p unit; i.e. to minimize the difference between suspension and steering angles. if you can weld forget about spending $1K for r&p kit - you just get the same thing in nice package

Don't go with improved steering box if you want much improved steering. R&p is much better than steering box, that's why it is used in all modern cars except trucks

68EFIvert · Jan 25, 2008

Here is an intersting read on another forum. I think it will answer your questions about the J car rack and the different variations.

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/showtopic.php?tid/1474761/tp/1/

Dazecars · Jan 25, 2008

klg said:
i was considering a taurus r&p swap in my 65 . but everone says the gm j-car is a better way to go . so i guess my new question is does anyone have any info on this swap.also what cars are considered j cars-years name of cars--

I think it would be a fun project. In fact I am going to build one for my 62 Galaxie here is a really good web page on how to do it:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040101124240/http://home.pacbell.net/ssixto/automotive/R&P/R&P.html

skywalker said:
Who is everyone?
The j-car rack is going to require a fair amount of fabbing and will give you bump steer and a significant increase in turn radius.

Going to have to disagree with you there. The J-car rac's advantage is that with center steer you must design steering linkage to make it work, which allows you to act just like the original linkage in terms of geometry. So if bump-steer is more of an issue than stock linkage, than it wasn't built correct. You are correct about the turning radius, but that is true of all R&P units for our cars including the aftermarket ones which BTW most of the good ones including TCP are based on the GM-j car rac

skywalker · Jan 26, 2008

Going to have to disagree with you there. The J-car rac's advantage is that with center steer you must design steering linkage to make it work, which allows you to act just like the original linkage in terms of geometry. So if bump-steer is more of an issue than stock linkage, than it wasn't built correct. You are correct about the turning radius, but that is true of all R&P units for our cars including the aftermarket ones which BTW most of the good ones including TCP are based on the GM-j car rac

If you read my later message i noted that i was confusing the J-car rack with an end take off rack. You have to forgive me, I am high on vicodin.

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