Auto vs. 5 speed

exc911ence · Nov 16, 2004

I've been looking for a clean 5.0L LX for awhile now and have been focusing on 5-speed cars but a really nice 93 Auto has come along at a great price that I am seriously interested in. So what I need to know is, how much slower is the auto than a comparable 5-speed car? Are there reliability issues with the auto trannys? Are they 3 speed or AOD's? I haven't owned an automatic car in a long, long time so it would take some getting used to. I'd like to act fast so any help would be greatly appreciated!

manpowermustang · Nov 16, 2004

An auto will be faster in the 1/4. Humans fail but a AOD wont. I have a 5speed and was fixed on nothing but a 5 speed when I bought my LX and now that I know more I would buy a AOD. Sure 5 speeds are fun and stuff but you cant beat the reliable shifts of a AOD. Look at all of the 7-8-9 second cars.... AOD!

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

manpowermustang said:
An auto will be faster in the 1/4. Humans fail but a AOD wont. I have a 5speed and was fixed on nothing but a 5 speed when I bought my LX and now that I know more I would buy a AOD. Sure 5 speeds are fun and stuff but you cant beat the reliable shifts of a AOD. Look at all of the 7-8-9 second cars.... AOD!

No absolutely wrong...stock vs. stock a good driven 5spd will walk an AOD car hard...

There is a big difference between 7-8-9 second cars to 12-13-14 second cars...budgets become a factor...

I say jump on the AOD (3 speed with another gear for overdrive so a total of 4 gears)...and if you get "bored" with it then you can do a 5spd swap pretty cheap...the car is clean so jump on that car...mine used to be an auto and it is a 93 also...but now it is a 5spd

A big reason why those 7-8-9 cars are running AOD's are for consistancy reasons (not to run faster)...they run in classes where they actually dial-in times and need to run consistent to win...

Down to probably the low-mid 11's the 5spd is superior...

89roadster · Nov 17, 2004

manpowermustang said:
An auto will be faster in the 1/4. Humans fail but a AOD wont. I have a 5speed and was fixed on nothing but a 5 speed when I bought my LX and now that I know more I would buy a AOD. Sure 5 speeds are fun and stuff but you cant beat the reliable shifts of a AOD. Look at all of the 7-8-9 second cars.... AOD!

How about we say that an auto would be more consistant in the 1/4, but certainly not faster on a stock vs. stock application. The only time an AOD will be faster is when the engine is putting out gobs of torque that a 5-speed could not handle.

That said...I switched from an AOD to tremec 3550 about 6 years ago now. I loved it at first because it turned the stang into a real sports car (the AOD had 100k on it and was shifting like it had mud running through it's veins). Now that I've grown older with kids, I would love to put an automatic back in it. I doubt that I would ever stick another AOD it though, I've been looking at sticking a 4r70w (AODE with wide ratio gears) into it so that I have better control over shift points. So my recommendation to you is: if you like the car, get it - you can always change your mind of what kind of tranny you want, but if the body is solid and it's a nice car, you shouldn't pass up the opportunity.

crazypete · Nov 17, 2004

I owned 5-speed mustangs for 7 years and ripped up 3 t-5's in that short period of time. T-5's are weak! The AOD's are much beefier and will sit there quietly taking up to I think it's 500 hp all day long. Plus...obviously...it will do all this without you lifting a finger to shift. I went t-5 to AOD, which some would consider heresy, but I will never look back! An automatic is at a disadvantage because of it's calibration but can match a t-5 once reconfigured.

Ok, now the fun stuff! On an AOD, it's mandatory to do a torque converter swap and a shift kit if you have any aspirations of performance.

The stock 1200 (1500?) stall converter just kills everything. The car is trying to take off completely outside it's powerband. This is why automatic (well, stock) sportscars feel like a dog off the line. I get the feeling that the automatic setup was an afterthought and the whole system was borrowed from another ford vehicle and not thought out well.

All that said, I swapped to a 2000 stall generic conveter and that was ok but the car finally woke up when I put the 3K tci streetfighter in. Now it really plants you into the seats when you launch.

Secondly,

The shifts on the AOD are designed for grandma and joe the commuter and not intended for performance. There is a lot of overlap which slows you down and burns clutches. A good shift kit will make the shifts fast and crisp. I installed a $70 transgo aod hp kit at the most agressive settings and it shifts just fine, not harsh. When you get on it it's like wham wham wham. This is actually better for the AOD since the clutches dont need to slip for very long, they last longer.

So all said, it's an extra $500 in parts (you'll need a transmission cooler with the new converter too) to bring an AOD to the level of a T-5 in terms of stock vs stock performance but you will end up with a self shifting transmission that is much tougher than the t-5.

Have fun dude!

CrazyPete

50 4 Fun · Nov 17, 2004

When I was looking for a Fox I wanted a 5-speed, but then I found my car and it was just what I was looking for, but it's an AOD long stoey short I bought it and I love my car, yah sometimes I wish it was a 5-speed, but for the most part I like the AOD Go for it

exc911ence · Nov 17, 2004

Thanks guys! I feel better about the automatic now and of course, a high stall and shift kit would definately be in the picture. Speaking of pictures, here's the car I'm looking at:

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

exc911ence said:
Thanks guys! I feel better about the automatic now and of course, a high stall and shift kit would definately be in the picture. Speaking of pictures, here's the car I'm looking at:

Wow...I love that color Is that performance red or that color they had on the sn-95's (I can't remember what it is called...I know a guy that has one that color)...

Get that car if it runs good and everything seems solid...

On the pros and cons:

t-5 (Pros)
More power due to less drivetrain loss
Lighter than the AOD
Simpler design
Runs quicker at the track
Control your powerband
Arguably funner
Cheaper base to get the car to go quicker
(Cons)
Tiresome in stop-go traffic

AOD (Pros)
Good in stop and go traffic...
Consistent at the drag strip...
(Cons)
Less power thru an AOD
Arguably not as fun
Basically the opposite of the pros of the T-5

This is stock vs. stock...or even slightly modified...

89roadster - The AODE shifts are controlled by the computer and plus that trans would take some "working" to get to bolt to a 5.0 block...but good luck with it...I'm with you...jump on that car...

89roadster · Nov 17, 2004

5spd GT said:
89roadster - The AODE shifts are controlled by the computer and plus that trans would take some "working" to get to bolt to a 5.0 block...but good luck with it...I'm with you...jump on that car...

Baumann Engineering makes a computer controller to the tranmission that totally bypasses the EFI computer so that I could stick the tranny in a carbed car if I wanted to. There's no problem hooking the 4r70w up to a 5.0 block, it can be done to any of the windsor engines without any problem (from what I'm told, haven't done it personally but know people who have).

I drive about 13 miles to work each way and typically there's not much stop & go, but when there is, the King Cobra will kill my left knee because my 15 minute trip will turn into 2 hours easy That's the biggest reason behind possibly going back to an automatic.

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

89roadster said:
Baumann Engineering makes a computer controller to the tranmission that totally bypasses the EFI computer so that I could stick the tranny in a carbed car if I wanted to. There's no problem hooking the 4r70w up to a 5.0 block, it can be done to any of the windsor engines without any problem (from what I'm told, haven't done it personally but know people who have).

I drive about 13 miles to work each way and typically there's not much stop & go, but when there is, the King Cobra will kill my left knee because my 15 minute trip will turn into 2 hours easy That's the biggest reason behind possibly going back to an automatic.

Hmm...well I figured since 4r70w is on the 96+ 4.6L I didn't think it would bolt right up

Yeah Baumann Engineering has some good products I was totally unaware of the bypass...thats cool...

I think my King Cobra clutch is soft

The Shape · Nov 17, 2004

I was in the same situation when I was looking for a mustang. I really wanted a 5 speed, but all of the 5 speed cars I found were just beat to death. I finally found my '87 AOD in extremely clean conditon and went with it. I sometimes think about swapping to a T-5 , but my AOD has never given me any trouble in the three years I have had it. Like Pete said a few mods and it will be even nicer, but even if you leave the AOD stock atleast invest in a good cooler it will extend the life of it.

The Shape · Nov 17, 2004

5spd GT said:
Hmm...well I figured since 4r70w is on the 96+ 4.6L I didn't think it would bolt right up

Yeah Baumann Engineering has some good products I was totally unaware of the bypass...thats cool...

I think my King Cobra clutch is soft

The AODE/4r70w was used in the 94-95 year 5.0 cars as well I believe.

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

The Shape said:
The AODE/4r70w was used in the 94-95 year 5.0 cars as well I believe.

Yeah the AODE was...I was just thinking (in my own little mind) that it was just on the 4.6L's when I was doing that "original" post...

The AODE and 4r70w have some internal differences though...but they same bolt-pattern I believe...

Matts89LX5.0 · Nov 17, 2004

every mustang i've ever owned has been a 5 spd until now. And I simply hate the AOD. If i wasn't planning on selling the car I would work the AOD because of the pros of the AOD. The AOD needs a shift kit and convertor. Otherwise it feels slow as $--T. If the car is clean like it looks to be, i would jump on it anyway

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

Just for kicks...here is an article on the differences...and explains the torque ratings/torque convertor size/and functions...

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/transmission/page2.shtml

I went thru the same delima with my car and decided on the 5spd...and now when I get in an auto I always want to shift something...but I want to get a daily driver (most likely an automatic)...so I have both options...if only I could afford one...

25thmustang · Nov 17, 2004

Firs things first... an AOD in stock form is no where near as fast as a well driven T5. Not even close. Even with converter and a shift kit the 5-speed can be just as fast. Your going to need a manual valve body and such to make up for the bad gear ratios, and parasitic loss of the tranny..

Second off those 7-9 second cars dont have AODs. They have C4s (similar to the AOD) or powerglides and such. It is rare to see an AOD in anything faster than an 11 second car (there are a lot, but most guys by that point have C4s). You wont see many T5s in that range either, for comparison sake.

Third the T5s that everyone keeps breaking, theres usually underlying reasons. Using a really hard clutch on a stock T5 will kill it. Beating on it all the time, will kill it. But treating it right, changing the fluid and only hammering at the track, they will last in a 12 second car for many years. I know I race with at least 4-5 guys who have them, I have one, and my dads low 12 second LX has one.

The AODs arent bad, but in a regular street application it wont match a well driven T5 car. A shift kit and mild torque converter will help a ton but just wont keep up with a 5-speed (for anyone with doubts, look into NMRAs Factory Stock class, they allow autos, not ONE fast car runs one).

Gas mileage with the 5-speed will be better as well, and the driving in traffic really sucks, but is bearable.

All in all I say go for this car. Mine was an auto, now its a 5-speed and Id never go back. If its clean, has low mileage and is the right car, things like trannies and such can be worried about later!

artus70 · Nov 17, 2004

You can shift and AOD, 1d1 shuffle on a stock AOD will even chirp the gear.I haven't seen any difference over a well driven 5speed and a well driven AOD...have seen people run out of gear in c4s though

juniordog · Nov 17, 2004

artus70 said:
You can shift and AOD, 1d1 shuffle on a stock AOD will even chirp the gear.I haven't seen any difference over a well driven 5speed and a well driven AOD...have seen people run out of gear in c4s though

manaul shifting an automatic has a slight delay...not good...

i own an 89 5 spd at the moment, i had a 94 with an aod about 2 years ago. there really is no comparison...5-spd is much better. AOD makes for a much more laid back and comfortable drive. true the AOD is still fast--it is a 5.0--but personally i would never go back to an AOD as long as my clutchin' foot stays strong. so as long as you are a big fan of speed and having full control over your car...hold out for a 5 spd. good luck!!!

wht93gtEd · Nov 17, 2004

I had the same dilemma as you. I found a 93 GT with an auto and was in great shape and a great price. So I jumped on it. Now, a year and a half later, I'm doing a 5spd swap on Thanksgiving weekend. I HATE the auto; the thing is such a super turd. I know, I know, I could have put a shift kit and stall converter in, but I still miss the fun of driving a manual. Still, with everything said, go for it! I picked up a complete 90 GT for the swap, for only $700. Good-luck!!

hllon4whls · Nov 17, 2004

25thmustang said:
Firs things first... an AOD in stock form is no where near as fast as a well driven T5. Not even close. Even with converter and a shift kit the 5-speed can be just as fast. Your going to need a manual valve body and such to make up for the bad gear ratios, and parasitic loss of the tranny..

Possibly, but you can hold your daiquiris in your right hand and steer with your left. How can you do that with a 5 speed in a street race? Or at the track for that matter?

Auto vs. 5 speed

exc911ence

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