Auto vs. 5 speed

Michael Yount · Nov 17, 2004

You can almost forget all the pros/cons in here - what it boils down to is preference, plain and simple. What do you like best? What do you want? That's all that matters.

Me? I wouldn't have an automatic unless manuals weren't available or I couldn't (physical limitation) drive a manual anymore. Nothing wrong with an automatic - if you like it, go for it.

25thmustang · Nov 17, 2004

hllon4whls said:
Possibly, but you can hold your daiquiris in your right hand and steer with your left. How can you do that with a 5 speed in a street race? Or at the track for that matter?

I stick them b/w the e-brake and pass seat until I need it...

I am a fan of driving the car not going for a ride, and a manual lets me drive the car. Just something about having a car any person who is willing to floor it can run as fast as me I cant stand, and with an auto, pretty much anyone can drive it to its full potential. With a stick, its nothing the same, and some people cant even start them, let alone run the cars best times on the first try!

Also I had an AOD, it didnt chirp any gears, and would barely spin the tire out of the hole!

exc911ence · Nov 17, 2004

Ideally I'd like a 5-speed notchback but every manual car that comes along is owned by a teenager with a heavy foot and is full of McDonald's fry containers! The automatic HB above is owned by a 55 year old gent who babies the car. You can see why I'm opting for a car that's not quite what I had in mind.

So what's involved in an auto -> 5-speed swap anyway?

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

25thmustang said:
Second off those 7-9 second cars dont have AODs. They have C4s (similar to the AOD) or powerglides and such. It is rare to see an AOD in anything faster than an 11 second car (there are a lot, but most guys by that point have C4s). You wont see many T5s in that range either, for comparison sake.

When I was saying the AOD's in the 7-8-9 second cars...I meant an automatic...and they actually manually shift those (valve body)...and I'd be willing to bet if people are in the 7's they are running a better trans than the 3speed C4...

You also have to remember a lot of people have these as their daily drivers (unlike you )...so the auto becomes much more likely in a choice...I know I almost got one...but changed my mine...and went 5spd...(mine is an auto/5spd swapped car as well)...

Michael - I thought I put the "preference" in the pros/cons...I put "the fun factor/stop and go traffic (comfortability - if that is a word)...I figured it was pretty well understood after reading those...

PhLoBuS · Nov 17, 2004

with a shift kit and a stall converter it will be better than a standard

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

exc911ence said:
So what's involved in an auto -> 5-speed swap anyway?

Hmm...well basically you need a donar car for the ease of getting all the right parts...you will need a clutch cable/clutch pedal assembly/different brake/pad assembly to allow room for the clutch pedal so you don't hit the brake instead ...a 5spd trans, shifter (most likely will be on the donar car), new speedo gear, flywheel, bellhousing, clutch disc/pressure plate/TOB/clutch fork etc...etc...sounds like a lot but you could come away from a scrap yard pretty cheapily with all that and much would be attached to the trans (TOB, clutch fork,...)...

And a good weekend...

Oh and on the AOD vs. 5spd in gas mileage...I would say there around the same...because the overdrive and overdrive in the 5spd have very similar final ratios...

RS200 · Nov 17, 2004

Regarding the 4R70W on a Fox - Only use for the "swap" is the wider gears. Why does nobody know about Ford Racing's wide ratio gear kit for AOD's? It's incredible, and it comes with all the stuff to make it last for a very long time. With a shift kit and converter, I easily beat equally modified (3.73:1 gears) T5s. As it is, my car will shift at 6500 RPM 1st-2nd, and at about 5800 RPM 2nd-3rd. Sure, the powerband is done by 5700 RPM, but it's a blast to hear the engine scream and know your transmission is fine.

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

RS200 said:
Regarding the 4R70W on a Fox - Only use for the "swap" is the wider gears. Why does nobody know about Ford Racing's wide ratio gear kit for AOD's? It's incredible, and it comes with all the stuff to make it last for a very long time. With a shift kit and converter, I easily beat equally modified (3.73:1 gears) T5s. As it is, my car will shift at 6500 RPM 1st-2nd, and at about 5800 RPM 2nd-3rd. Sure, the powerband is done by 5700 RPM, but it's a blast to hear the engine scream and know your transmission is fine.

And what car do you have? Mods?

6500rpm is awfully high...your tach maybe off...

exc911ence · Nov 17, 2004

So what are the acceleration differences between a stock auto and a stock 5-speed? Anyone have any hard data?

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

exc911ence said:
So what are the acceleration differences between a stock auto and a stock 5-speed? Anyone have any hard data?

I would say a solid 2-3 tenths (some more) depending on what track numbers you get...the only hard data I have is those on here and at my track...

The Shape · Nov 17, 2004

Like Michael said it just comes down to preference. Either way AOD or T-5 if it is in good shape and well tuned neither one is slow.

RS200 · Nov 17, 2004

5spd GT said:
And what car do you have? Mods?

6500rpm is awfully high...your tach maybe off...

Just 3.73's in a 1988 GT. The tach is pretty accurate, and I know 6500 may be a little high, but I am going to buy a new cam to move up the powerband.

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

RS200 said:
Just 3.73's in a 1988 GT. The tach is pretty accurate, and I know 6500 may be a little high, but I am going to buy a new cam to move up the powerband.

I'd be willing to bet your tach is off...get it tested...

Well the cam can only "flow" as good as the heads/intake can...the addition of just a cam very well could slow you down thru an automatic...

If your wanting a cam that wants to rev to 6500rpm you will loose low end torque (which you need) it won't match your restrictive intake and heads and will still struggle to actually reach 6500rpm...

What speedo gear do you have?

25thmustang · Nov 17, 2004

Your tach is off unless you have an extender or something. We have 6250 rev limiters...

As far as 5-speed daily drivers, I DD my car from March to October, drive it the 150 miles each way to my GFs, etc... I get stuck in the NY, NJ, CT traffic with it, and I must say, it sucks, but Im willing to deal with it...

As for faster auto or stick theres a point where neither matters (Top Fuel etc...) and it deoends on your definition of manual and auto...

Id say go for that car, you can always change it!

5spd GT · Nov 17, 2004

25thmustang said:
As far as 5-speed daily drivers, I DD my car from March to October, drive it the 150 miles each way to my GFs, etc... I get stuck in the NY, NJ, CT traffic with it, and I must say, it sucks, but Im willing to deal with it...

I drive mine everyday...because it is my only driver

I could have swore you had another vehicle you drive because you put it away from the winter...sure you can drive your car that March thru October but you have another vehicle to fall back on in case something goes on it...

87'GTstang · Nov 17, 2004

RS200 said:
Just 3.73's in a 1988 GT. The tach is pretty accurate, and I know 6500 may be a little high, but I am going to buy a new cam to move up the powerband.

Do you know what yellow and red-line is?

Michael Yount · Nov 17, 2004

If it's stock tach and no chip then it's not actually hitting 6500. It's just another in a long line of notoriously inaccurate factory tachs. Many people have hit "7000 rpm" according to the stock tach. But if the engine's still revving, they're actually still under the 6250 factory ecu rev limiter which cuts fuel.

RS200 · Nov 17, 2004

Michael Yount said:
If it's stock tach and no chip then it's not actually hitting 6500. It's just another in a long line of notoriously inaccurate factory tachs. Many people have hit "7000 rpm" according to the stock tach. But if the engine's still revving, they're actually still under the 6250 factory ecu rev limiter which cuts fuel.

Well, it is a Canadian car - would that make a difference? The tach must be off by A LOT, because I er...have had it to 7000. I am not bull****ting; there's a tunnel on the cruising strip that amplifies the exhaust sound so much, it's a crime not to rev. I only saw the needle drop from 6900, so this tach must be off by over 10-25%, if it isn't correct BTW, it was an accident that I went to "7000". I'm lucky that nothing broke.

Michael Yount · Nov 18, 2004

It's common that they're off by that much. Especially the Canadian cars. Up that far in the northern hemisphere, the earth's gravitational gaussian flux is disrupted by close proximity to magnetic north at the pole causing wide and frequent variations by any analog gauges.

Seriously - it not only can be off by that much, it is. The factory ecu has a fuel cutoff that occurs at 6250 rpm. You'd know if you hit the fuel cutoff. The car stops running like right now -- yes, even in Canada.

rsw007 · Nov 18, 2004

buy the aod car its clean and thats hard to find these days. then if you want to drag race alot then you can build a nice aod car.

Auto vs. 5 speed

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