Blown engine....does this explanation sound feasible?

gibbs1820 · Sep 18, 2008

UPDATE

Just got back from mechanics.

It is cylinder #5 that was the issue.
The new intake is on.

They drove the car in and out of the shop a few times trying to solve the issue with the t-stat o-ring. Car was not smoking, making strange noises, steaming, or anything like that. PRoblem didn't happen until after new intake was installed.

They changed oil as well.
After they put the new intake on they went to take the car out of the garage, turned key and BOOM. Engine didn't start just the boom. A couple pieces of the engine block blew out. Engine still turns.

Spark plug did not have coolant on it.
Mechanic said they did use a vacuum to suck out any water that might have been in the cylinder. But if there was water in cylinder why wouldn't it just get blown out the exhaust???

Car certainly should blow with a simple engine crank?

He can only theorize that some how water had to got into that cylinder.
He didn't have a real good explanation himself as he had never seen this happen before.

MIghty odd that they didn't have any problem until AFTER the new intake was put on. Maybe they dropped a bolt into cylinder?

He suggested I could bring in a 3rd party appraiser or even have his insurance people look at it. He said he had nothing to hide. Is is just trying to cover his butt?

Suggestions?
I think I might try to get a local Ford dealer to come look at it.

How would I go about making a claim against his general liability insurance? Anyone have to go that route?

SaleenGT2001 · Sep 18, 2008

the water would not simply blow out the exhaust.

the on the compression stroke the valves are closed. if there is water in the cylinder and the valves are shut there is no where for the water to go. it will either lock the engine in place until the water is removed or break a rod like yours did

mogs01gt · Sep 18, 2008

If the mechanic already suggested bringing in a third party. He is probably confident that no-one at the shop did anything to ruin the engine like over rev it. I would take him up the office on the third party but I would also call your insurance company and have them deal with his insurance person. Make sure to always be mature and respectful, never try and place blame because that will make things much harder.

It sounds almost as if they used the wrong intake gasket.

gibbs1820 · Sep 18, 2008

They replaced the whole intake, not just the gasket, as the crack was on the original intake.

Guess have to figure out when the water would have got into the cylinder. Under driving or during the repair.

I would have to think it was during the repair as the car was driving perfectly normal up until that point.

So I should just contact my regular car insurance people and have them contact his insurance and go from there?

Skud · Sep 18, 2008

Something doesn't sound right with the mechanic's story. You don't blow a hole in the block simply from starting the car with water in the cylinder.

There isn't enough momentum in the engine at idle and cranking to do that. You will either make a nice "S" bend in the rod or the engine will just lock up. I could see a head gasket blow too, but not the block.

Something's fishy..

Riley

LucasMelo · Sep 18, 2008

Come on man.... its simple....

1- The car was working when you left their shop....
2- He (himself) stated that he vacuumed the engine(IF TRUE..... I dont believe it)
3- He stated that "They drove the car in and out of the shop a few times"

How did it blow up then?

If you had another "small" problem that would be understandable but an engine blowing like that does not happen for a simple reason...

It's not your fault..... They must have done (They did....) something wrong...

Worse case scenario, tell him that you are very sorry but you will have to take him to small claims court......

Smokeurhonda · Sep 18, 2008

Skud said:
Something doesn't sound right with the mechanic's story. You don't blow a hole in the block simply from starting the car with water in the cylinder.

There isn't enough momentum in the engine at idle and cranking to do that. You will either make a nice "S" bend in the rod or the engine will just lock up. I could see a head gasket blow too, but not the block.

Something's fishy..

Riley

+1

I have never seen the kind of damage you are discribing from water in a cylinder on start up. Like he said, hydrolocked motor or worst case bent rod. You typically only can break **** like that with water at higher RPM rather than start up.

Cylinder 5 is the closest to the t-stat. It is possible that water entered that cylinder during the intake manifold change or improperly installed manifold/gasket. But again, that's alot of damage on start up. It is very likely that the Tech dropped something down that runner and made **** go boom. But then it would probably be piston damage vs. a hole in the block. You need to get another professional to look at the car before any determination can be made.

Goodluck brother.

gibbs1820 · Sep 18, 2008

Earlier I said vacuumed water out, should have stated he blew it out with compressed air.

Another guy told me that they should have just left the spark plugs off, cranked the motor, and let the water purge out.

I'm calling my insurance agent in the morning.

gibbs1820 · Sep 18, 2008

LucasMelo said:
Come on man.... its simple....

1- The car was working when you left their shop....
2- He (himself) stated that he vacuumed the engine(IF TRUE..... I dont believe it)
3- He stated that "They drove the car in and out of the shop a few times"

How did it blow up then?

If you had another "small" problem that would be understandable but an engine blowing like that does not happen for a simple reason...

It's not your fault..... They must have done (They did....) something wrong...

Worse case scenario, tell him that you are very sorry but you will have to take him to small claims court......

They drove the car in and out of the shop when trying to fix the original coolant leak. The drove the car into the shop to do the intake change too.

It was only after the new intake was on that they cranked the motor to leave the shop when they hear the "boom"

WhiteFox342 · Sep 18, 2008

I had on in the shop about a year ago. It was a Mercury Marquis, but still has the 4.6 / plastic intake like the Mustang. The car was towed in. The owner said she started it in the morning and it made an awful noise. There is a little oil leaking when the tow truck drive rolls it off the truck. I look under the car and see chunks of a rod sticking through the pan on the drivers side.

I replaced the entire motor with a slavage yard engine. I decided to tear down the old one to see what happened. The plastic intake cracked and leaked water into the intake. I have seen many leak externally behind the alternator, but never internally....until now. This thing had an internal crack. When she started it that piston came up and tried to compress the water. The rod let loose and went through the pan.

Don't forget how crappy those powdered metal rods are too. Maybe a good H beam would have just stopped the motor from turning.

gibbs1820 · Sep 18, 2008

But when replacing the intake shouldn't they make sure there isn't any liquid present? Hence why they used air to blow out the cylinder?

Smokeurhonda · Sep 18, 2008

WhiteFox342 said:
I had on in the shop about a year ago. It was a Mercury Marquis, but still has the 4.6 / plastic intake like the Mustang. The car was towed in. The owner said she started it in the morning and it made an awful noise. There is a little oil leaking when the tow truck drive rolls it off the truck. I look under the car and see chunks of a rod sticking through the pan on the drivers side.

I replaced the entire motor with a slavage yard engine. I decided to tear down the old one to see what happened. The plastic intake cracked and leaked water into the intake. I have seen many leak externally behind the alternator, but never internally....until now. This thing had an internal crack. When she started it that piston came up and tried to compress the water. The rod let loose and went through the pan.

Don't forget how crappy those powdered metal rods are too. Maybe a good H beam would have just stopped the motor from turning.

Damn, I can't believe I spray my car on stock internals.

Smokeurhonda · Sep 18, 2008

gibbs1820 said:
But when replacing the intake shouldn't they make sure there isn't any liquid present? Hence why they used air to blow out the cylinder?

Any good tech would remove all water out of the cylinders before trying to crank. I would pull the plugs and crank it to purge liquid. The fact that this happened after the intake swap means it prob a problem with the techs work, prob installed wrong

mogs01gt · Sep 19, 2008

Any good mechanic drains the radiator fluid before removing the intake . Barely any coolant that way.

bhuff30 · Sep 19, 2008

Exactly.

Smokeurhonda said:
Any good tech would remove all water out of the cylinders before trying to crank. I would pull the plugs and crank it to purge liquid. The fact that this happened after the intake swap means it prob a problem with the techs work, prob installed wrong

The cylinder was filled with water from the intake swap or a gasket leak. When they tried to start the engine, the piston went up and slammed against the water. Water can not be compressed but the other 7 cylinders and starter trying to start the engine slammed the piston into the water with enough force to break the rod. The rod broke instead of bending because it is CAST iron. Cast iron is brittle and will not bend as a forged piece might. After the rod broke the remaining stub of rod attached to the crank started slapping around inside the block and cylinder, breaking pieces of the block out and destroying everything that it could reach.

Some are saying it doesn't make sense for the rod to break at low rpms, but the combination of momentom from the other moving parts, the other cylinders firing and starter was obviously enough when the piston suddenly came to a stop against the water. I'm guessing there was just barely enough water to make it hydrolock, so the piston was high in the cylinder and the crank had excellent mechanical leverage push the rod.

gibbs1820 · Sep 19, 2008

The engine never actually fired from what I'm told. Turned key and BOOM.

HOOCBB · Sep 19, 2008

Personally I'd pull the head to inspect the combustion chamber. If something was dropped into the runner and made it's way into the chamber, the head should be beat up in that chamber. I would use a third party shop to disassemble the motor on that side for examination purposes. A lot of answers can be answered with disassembly.

streethorse · Sep 19, 2008

That sounds like thing to do is have the car towed imeadiatly
to a different mechanic for disassembly and inspection.

forum155pl · Sep 19, 2008

yeah i would have to say that your going to have to tell him to leave your tab open and take it to a reputable shop for a tear down.. you prolly could get the full amount back in small claims court.. take him on juge judy lol

WhiteFox342 · Sep 19, 2008

gibbs1820 said:
The engine never actually fired from what I'm told. Turned key and BOOM.

I would not believe that one. The only way that could happen would be if there were a little C4 hooked up to your ignition James Bond style.

Blown engine....does this explanation sound feasible?

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