Breaking Up 86 Aod @ 4200rpm Stock

twistedwankel · Oct 1, 2012

Okay I run this car hard. 126k miles on original engine/trans.
Stock new everything. Most things have been replaced over the last 2 years.
It runs nearly perfect. Minor idle ripple like a mild cam would do but sounds great.
Starts, idles up, idles down, AC on makes the idle up like its supposed to.
Snorts and growls off the line but especially in 2nd gear it breaks up about 4200-4500rpm with WOT.
I autocross this car and it is totally stock. Only have K&N air cleaner.
No codes today. Just replaced the TPS and the EGR sensor controller. Runs perfect except for the top end. New MSD coil last month. Plugs and wires in last 4 months. Reman distributor about 3 years ago.
Newer fuel pump. Timing perfect. At a loss for now. Open to ideas so I can see 5500rpm smoothly some day?
#11 on code = perfect and #90 on cylinder test results = perfect.
Starting to wonder if it's always done that? I've only had it 4 years and it came with total new stock exhaust and cats. Anyone ever race one of these new with an AOD?

Thanks,
Doug

ratio411 · Oct 2, 2012

I made a comment about checking mechanical issues, like valvesprings, in response to your post in another thread.

You might also rebuild your injectors if they haven't been ever before.
They have o-rings and screens that need to be refreshed occaisionally.
RJM sells the rebuild kit with all the seals, rings, and screens, for about 20 bux.
I have seen it fix a car with symptoms like yours.
Very slight and intermittent miss at low rpms, and total freak out at high rpms.

Again, no garauntee this is your problem, but if the electrical and fuel are ruled out, you gotta look at mechanical.

twistedwankel · Oct 2, 2012

ratio411 said:
I made a comment about checking mechanical issues, like valvesprings, in response to your post in another thread.

You might also rebuild your injectors if they haven't been ever before.
They have o-rings and screens that need to be refreshed occaisionally.
RJM sells the rebuild kit with all the seals, rings, and screens, for about 20 bux.
I have seen it fix a car with symptoms like yours.
Very slight and intermittent miss at low rpms, and total freak out at high rpms.

Again, no garauntee this is your problem, but if the electrical and fuel are ruled out, you gotta look at mechanical.

What a coincidence. I just got back from having the year old fuel filter replaced and it did alot of good. Pulls all the way to 5k like I wanted in 2nd gear. First gear was nearly perfect and quick. So it was a fuel flow problem after all. I totally agree with your comment above now!! I'm going racing next weekend and I'm sure I'll be alot happier. When I get a discount coupon for the injector cleaning I'll do that next.

Thanks for your input. Maybe this is the year I learn what a new 86 ran like?
Good info.

Doug

ratio411 · Oct 2, 2012

Good to hear!
If your fuel filter clogs quicker than it should, you might want to clean out the tank and replace the sock on the fuel pickup. Just a thought, I know if you don't drop your tank much it can be a big deal though. Over the last year I have dropped the tanks on our cars more than I care to think about! Until we finally just gave up and replaced 2 of our tanks, it became routine. It went from a day long job to just a few minutes by the time we were done! Hopefully it is all sorted out now. We replaced senders, pumps, brackets, socks, tanks, and everything on 2 cars, so it might be years before we have to bother again.

twistedwankel · Oct 28, 2012

Occassionally this was starting to happen again but not nearly as bad. So several factors might have been at work here (?) but:

Problem permanently solved? Car now pulls hard all the way to 5800 redline in both first and 2nd.

Took car to shop to verify fuel pressure and injectors all working properly. A OK. + No Codes. About to do compression test then:

Old Ford Tech working there remembered a problem with the "Spout" shorting out (or open) at higher rpms.

Sure enough when he replaced the original spout with a tight fitting jumper the problem was solved. I got a new spout from the local Ford dealer but they are also available slightly cheaper from Late Model Restoration on line. Original Ford. Just make sure you have a tight clean fitment and it should be okay for another 27 years? All for only 1/2 hours labor. I got off cheap. Or one could simply cut off the whole plastic thing and put in an insulated coupling? You only use this thing every 30k when you set base timing.

The car is far from new but it sure moves now and makes me smile.

twistedwankel · Nov 2, 2012

HERE is my final story that has resolved all my issues with this now awesome stock engine!! WOOHOO.
So I bought the special tool for $5 to remove/install the TFI on distributor and a Accel TFI. All for 20% off via online Advance Auto free shipping.

For the one day (25miles) it worked and the new Accel TFI ignition module was a tire smoker and loved rpm's. Once again thought I found the holy grail....nope.

Car started hiccuping and stalling at traffic lights. So I assumed the the "oft failed" PIP in the distributor was also bad like all the forums/experts told me.

Since I don't have the tools to pull the distributor apart to install the $48+tax pickup PIP.

I found a $61 reman Ford Distributor @ Advance Auto locally with good PIP and new gear and bearings. DOH.

So I searched online and found a good pictorial discription of how to make sure I would install the distributor properly.

This morning I finished the remove/install as had left in motor TDC last nite.

Damn. The shop I let put in a reman distributor 3ish years ago missed a tooth and all this time I've been running God knows what base timing? 10 off? That ECU must be awesome to make it run good that messed up!!

Anyhow once I got that installed properly (pointing at #1 plug wire), set the base timing, put the "spout" back in the idle was noticably better and held constant.

Went for a ride. Really thought I had it this time. 5 miles later it stalled at light. 10 miles later it was getting to be a bucking bronco. SH*T.

Limped home. Removed the new Accel TFI and put the old Hong Kong one back in.

AIBM = As If By Magic all was well in normal and spirited driving.

Slight miss at WOT near the topend but otherwise drives like it did in 1986? FINALLY I know what it was like. Fast. GD mechanics in a hurry to go home or just stupid.

Took back the failed Accel TFI and they ordered me another one. That thing makes the car run so strong on the top end using Mallory coil's spark so I have to try another one!!

Guess the good thing is that it failed thus making me pull the distributor. So now I have a known good spare distributor and PIP. Of course I'll keep it forever as the laughable core charge was $1.

Hopefully the end of the "good" running but "no cigar" musclecar saga. Will call for another dragstrip test and tune

I'm happy for now. Guess I owe BMW group a thank you for making such a high speed course a few weeks ago!!

Thanks guys for all your help with this.

88LX5.Oh · Nov 2, 2012

twistedwankel said:
Damn. The shop I let put in a reman distributor 3ish years ago missed a tooth and all this time I've been running God knows what base timing? 10 off? That ECU must be awesome to make it run good that messed up!!

The computer is able to advance timing up to approximately 24 degrees above initial timing.

scoozy58 · Nov 8, 2012

twistedwankel said:
HERE is my final story that has resolved all my issues with this now awesome stock engine!! WOOHOO.
So I bought the special tool for $5 to remove/install the TFI on distributor and a Accel TFI. All for 20% off via online Advance Auto free shipping.

For the one day (25miles) it worked and the new Accel TFI ignition module was a tire smoker and loved rpm's. Once again thought I found the holy grail....nope.

Car started hiccuping and stalling at traffic lights. So I assumed the the "oft failed" PIP in the distributor was also bad like all the forums/experts told me.

Since I don't have the tools to pull the distributor apart to install the $48+tax pickup PIP.

I found a $61 reman Ford Distributor @ Advance Auto locally with good PIP and new gear and bearings. DOH.

So I searched online and found a good pictorial discription of how to make sure I would install the distributor properly.

This morning I finished the remove/install as had left in motor TDC last nite.

Damn. The shop I let put in a reman distributor 3ish years ago missed a tooth and all this time I've been running God knows what base timing? 10 off? That ECU must be awesome to make it run good that messed up!!

Anyhow once I got that installed properly (pointing at #1 plug wire), set the base timing, put the "spout" back in the idle was noticably better and held constant.

Went for a ride. Really thought I had it this time. 5 miles later it stalled at light. 10 miles later it was getting to be a bucking bronco. SH*T.

Limped home. Removed the new Accel TFI and put the old Hong Kong one back in.

AIBM = As If By Magic all was well in normal and spirited driving.

Slight miss at WOT near the topend but otherwise drives like it did in 1986? FINALLY I know what it was like. Fast. GD mechanics in a hurry to go home or just stupid.

Took back the failed Accel TFI and they ordered me another one. That thing makes the car run so strong on the top end using Mallory coil's spark so I have to try another one!!

Guess the good thing is that it failed thus making me pull the distributor. So now I have a known good spare distributor and PIP. Of course I'll keep it forever as the laughable core charge was $1.

Hopefully the end of the "good" running but "no cigar" musclecar saga. Will call for another dragstrip test and tune

I'm happy for now. Guess I owe BMW group a thank you for making such a high speed course a few weeks ago!!

Thanks guys for all your help with this.

hi, i am trying to remove the TFI and wondering where i can get one of those awesome removal tools you mentioned, thankyou.

mikestang63 · Nov 8, 2012

This is simply my opinion, but anything Accel is garbage and I would not put that brand on any car I owned. If and when my TFI starts to act up, I am going to do this and solve the problem for good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MUSTANG-BRONCO-TFI-RELOCATION-MODULE-REMOTE-KIT-Turbo-SVO-5-0L-5-8L-SUPERCHARGER-/310430732438?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&nma=true&si=gpUEqx+LwuoCollhAbBRmawUa84=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

twistedwankel · Nov 13, 2012

scoozy58 said:
hi, i am trying to remove the TFI and wondering where i can get one of those awesome removal tools you mentioned, thankyou.

Most parts stores have them. Mine I got from Late Model Restorations online free shipping for $5. And I think American Muscle has them too for low price. Some come with a 5.5mm hex on one end and a Star head on the other for later year cars. Look and see what yours has first.

twistedwankel · Nov 13, 2012

I got 3 new Accel TFI's in two weeks from Advance Auto and they were all worthless. The last two the car wouldn't even hold an idle and would stall when I put it in gear. Junk. So.......Motorcraft from Ford was like $200 = yikes. Found some Motorcrafts at Summitracing.com for about $107+SH but don't know if they would work with my AOD?

I could buy a nice relo setup for $55-$70. The $55 one leaves a gap for dirt to enter the distributor so you have to make a cover. The $70 one uses a modified original TFI at the distributor end so the hole is covered.

Anyhow for $40 delivered from Latemodel Restoration I got a really good TFI specific for my 86AOD!! Great instructions on testing the coil, wires and plugs to avoid issues with the new unit. "Burned in" electronics, high temp, special silicone grease included and a 12 month guarantee. It worked perfectly right out of the box!! This is the ONE!! Went on a long road trip today in the heat and no issues at all. Super fast without a miss. I threw the old one in the glovebox for backup but don't think I'll be needing it for years.

There was a comment in the brief instructions that if your Ford TFI says "Made in France" it probably will fail due to poor soldering of transistor to heat sink.

twistedwankel · Nov 13, 2012

Shamu is back!! And I did this without the awesome new TFI I just got.

Stock Street Tire 3 (FS)' - Total Entries: 5 Trophies: 2 Car Color Times Total
1T S3 96 Doug Adams 86 Ford Mustang GT ShamuWhite 59.156 59.172 47.786+DNF 58.135 58.135
[-]0.281
2T S3 66 Michael Murdoch 07 Ford Shelby Gt Black 59.945+1 58.416 53.476+DNF 59.024 58.416
+0.281
3 S3 90 Alex Ross 90 Ford Mustang White 62.976 61.308 70.897+3 62.095 61.308
+2.892
4 S3 415 Nathan Williams 09 Pontiac G8 White 64.924 63.347 63.913 63.059 63.059
+1.751
5 S3 190 Jim Ross 90 Ford Mustang White 47.952+DNF 72.251 69.613 63.323+DNF 69.613

scoozy58 · Dec 9, 2012

twistedwankel said:
Most parts stores have them. Mine I got from Late Model Restorations online free shipping for $5. And I think American Muscle has them too for low price. Some come with a 5.5mm hex on one end and a Star head on the other for later year cars. Look and see what yours has first.

yup, got one @ napa, damn if i could figure out the size, but it is 5.5 thankyou. and yes, the Accel TFI was garbage. Broke as soon as i installed it.

Breaking Up 86 Aod @ 4200rpm Stock

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