c4 trans install question

jason89gt · Feb 25, 2007

Just installed c4 trans in the 89 musatng trans is bolted up and torque converter is bolted up. The question or problem I have is the engine is very hard to turn with a breaker bar on the crank. Has anyone every ran into this before? As far as i know the converter is seated properly in the pump. Should I pull in back out and double check the converter? thanks Jason

goodfastncheap · Feb 25, 2007

I have swapped c-4s and converters a number of times, and the ONE time I had this symptom, it was because the converter was improperly seated.

jason89gt · Feb 25, 2007

c4 trans help

I really think the converter is not seated properly! Thanks for your reply I removed the converter bolts and had a hard time turning the engine over with a 4 foot breaker bar. Should I pull the trans all the way out or could I pull the bolts out and use 2 long bolts for giude on the bell housing and pull it back as far as the bolts will let me and seat the converter? I was reading there should be like 2 to 3 clicks as the converter goes in. Does this sound correct Thanks for your help Jason

goodfastncheap · Feb 26, 2007

You will need to pull the transmission out completely to make sure that you did not damage the front pump bushing.
I damaged this part when I forced everything together that time with the converter not seated correctly. Just take off the bellhousing, open up the pump and check the bushing - it's almost a sure bet that it's all chewed up.

I have a c-4/conv. on my garage floor and just went and checked my process to seat the conv. - put it on the input shaft, wiggle and rotate, ONE CLICK, part of the way in, rotate and wiggle, SECOND CLICK, all the way in. The end of the converter to flexplate studs should end up 1/2" inside the surface of the bellhousing.

jason89gt · Feb 26, 2007

c4 help

I take it back out tonight and inspect it. You said take the bell housing off and just unbolt the pump and look at the bushing? My converter has threaded holes for bolts not studs. Shouldn't you have to pull the converter to the flywheel a little when you bolt it up? Thanks Jason

goodfastncheap · Feb 26, 2007

Yes, the converter will come back toward the flexplate a little when you bolt it up. I guess since you have bolt holes in your converter, then the face of it would end up about 1" from the surface of the bellhousing once it's seated right.

There should be 5 bolts on the pump cover (tighten to 7-10 ft.lbs). Inside the pump body behind the seal and the gears is the bushing, which is made out of soft bearing material. Inspect for damage and replace if necessary. Put the gears in exactly as they came out - driven gear with chamfered ends of the teeth toward the seal, and drive gear with the drive tangs facing away from the seal.

jason89gt · Feb 26, 2007

c4 help

I'll do that tonight Thanks Jason

jason89gt · Feb 26, 2007

c4 help

I pulled the trans out tonight. I feel the converter was seated properly but what i don't understand is a couple measurments. On the Art Carr trans web site they tell you to measure from the trans bell housing down to the converter flange my measurement was just under 3/4 say 11/16. that is measurement A when the converter is properly seated. Then measure from the back of the engine block to the back side of the flywheel my measurement was 1 1/8 measurement B. On the web site they say "A must be greater than B" Which would mean I have too much flywheel overhang in the bell housing pushing againt the converter right? The only thing I can come up with is the flywheel (flexplate) is incorrect. There are no number on the plate so maybe they pulled the wrong one. I willl call Art Carr tomorrow. Thanks for your help Jason

goodfastncheap · Feb 27, 2007

I guess the "good" news is your con was seated right and you didn't damage your pump bushing.

It does indeed sound like maybe you have the wrong flexplate - whood ever a thunkit. Hang in there with your do over, especially if you're on jackstands.

jason89gt · Feb 27, 2007

C4 TRANS HELP

Art Carr seems to think the converter still need to go in farther! I got the two clicks and it pushed in. The guy at Art Carr says to tap or beat the converter in farther with a rubber hammer. But first I need to measure the converter height to see if it is the correct size with should be 5.700. He would not give me the other measurements on the converte (the dia of the shaft on the converter and the measurement from the mounting tabs to the slot on the shaft. He said to measure then and call he back tomorrow so he can confim the it is the correct converter. I just wonder if someone gave me the wrong converter. Thanks Jason

goodfastncheap · Feb 27, 2007

Sounds like you're being very patient. Keep it up and let us know how this comes out...

jason89gt · Mar 1, 2007

c4 help

Nothing yet Art Carr is probably going to send me a new converter. Also they said the pump could be on backward! Who knows?????Thanks Jason

goodfastncheap · Mar 1, 2007

Jason,

Good for Art Carr to send you a new converter, I don't believe they would do that unless you proved to them that they shipped the wrong one.

I am surprised they suggested that the pump is backwards, I honestly don't think it would even be possible to install a c-4 pump backwards.

Diagram:
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/images/trans/c4exp.gif

Thanks for keeping us posted...

Deece · Mar 1, 2007

This is going to sound retarted but is it possible you have the flexplate on backwards? If its flipped over it would sit about an inch off

jason89gt · Mar 2, 2007

c4 help

Hey whats going on? No the flywheel won't go on the other way. I figured out that the picture I got from art carr is a little misleading because i was measuring form the block to the edge of the flywheel teeth like the picture shows. Actually the flywheel is reseased in where the torque converter would sit. That throws my measurements out the window but the converter is still not going in! Art Carr says the converter should sit in the bell housing 900 thousands and mine will only go in 687 thousands. I hope this new converter slides right in! Thanks Jason

goodfastncheap · Mar 2, 2007

Pump and flexplate are installed right and you're .213 off on the depth with the converter seated, as I understand it now.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the last click when you're seating a converter should be around an inch, so it indeed sounds like maybe you got a converter with either a turbine hub that is .213 off, or too thick of a housing.

Anybody else have any insight into this?

jason89gt · Mar 6, 2007

c4 help

I will have the new torque converter tomorrow. They had to build it with the correct stall so we will see. I'll let you know tomorrow. We pulled my buddies engine out and took his converter into my trans and the clearence was fine. we put my converter in his trans same problem! thanks Jason

Juiced87Notch · Mar 6, 2007

while your waiting on your converter, what all did you have to do to swap the c4 in? I want to take the aod out of my 87 coupe and put a c4 in, just trying to gather up what parts and info I need.

jason89gt · Mar 6, 2007

c4 trans

Well i bought the conversion kit because i went from a stick to c4. you get the trans,bell housing, converter, flywheel, trans cooler, dipstick, and trans mount. Are you using your stock shifter? I just had to remove all the stick stuff and install the c4 stuff and run the trans lines. I'm not sure if my stick computer will work? The only other ting i had to do is move the crossmember forward by cutting the welds and rewelding it. thanks Jason

goodfastncheap · Mar 6, 2007

I will keep and eye on the thread -- please let us know just how this was sized wrong, and why, along with part numbers. I have my vendor list narrowed down to Art Carr and one other for a converter for my 351/c-4 carbed motor in my bare-bones car. Looks like you're getting to the bottom of it, good.

c4 trans install question

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