Cam/gear selection for 393w

[ratio411]

3.85" stroke crank $250
Balance $300

Fwiw, if you bore and build an engine, you buy pistons.
If you have a Ford you buy ARP bolts.
So, what you are showing is that a 393 costs 550 over a stock rebuild...
But wait, you don't have to recondition the 351 crank!
So, 400 bux total over all the money you were going to spend to start with.

 

[afterglow]

The problem with the 408W in my case is that I can't seem to get a piston that'll get me to my target 9.5CR. The 408W needs the AFR205s which only come with 58cc chambers. With a 25cc dish, I'm still getting a CR of 9.8. The 30cc dish pistons are over budget.

 

[ratio411]

What about clearancing the block?

I know the 408 needs notching, but I believe the 393 does not.

Correct me if I am wrong...

 

[Dbiscayne]

Are you set on AFR heads?
In your original post you mentioned the AFR 185 in a 61cc, now you say it's only available in a 58cc. Why is that? I thought they came in both 58 or 61?
Canfield heads can be had up to 65cc.
Edelbrock Vic Jr's in 60cc or 70cc

heres a quick comp. ratio calculator -
http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

Do you need to stay emmissions legal?

And back to your trans. Are you sure it's a C6? Most Mach's came with an FMX, which isn't as strong as a C6 but will eat up as much power. Nothing wrong with the FMX, just mentioned it so you get the right parts. If you're buying an entirely new trans I'd go with a C4 (bellhousing not an issue, crossmember easy fix, shift linkage & driveshaft length might be a problem).
The 3.55's are great street gears, with the right tire.

For the cam, call around to different cam companies and see about getting a custom grind. They're really not much more $$ than a stock grind, but will take into account the extra 50 cubic inches you've got. An off the shelf 351 cam is just that, if you find one that'll leave the valves open long enough to fill the cylinders it's probably going to have a huge lift.
What year was your block built (check the numbers near where the starter ends up, rear passenger side). If it's 'F4TE' the it was built after 1994 and you can put a standard roller cam in it with stock roller lifters, just get the spider to hold the lifters, the block is machined for a roller cam. If not, well you could spend a lot of $$ on the link bar lifters and still use a roller cam or just use a flat tappet cam.
Crane Cams 386 258-6174
Comp Cams 800 999-0853
Lunati 901 365-0950
and Comp Cams has a line of cams out specifically for stroker motors.

It'd be worth it to call around to the people selling the stroker kits too, a lot of times they have pistons available that aren't shown on their website or catalogue, trust me you're not the first one thats run into this.

 

[Dbiscayne]

And for Ratio 411 -
Yep the 408 needs a little clearancing, the 393 usually doesn't except maybe a hammer to the oil pan. Not a big deal though.

The idea behind the 393w for street use is to use the stock rods!
Why, oh why, did you buy new rods that were the exact same length as stock???

Why wouldn't I? The old rods needed $120 worth of machine work, PLUS the cost of new rod bolts. The rods I bought were better than stock and came with APR bolts. At the time I bought the rods I still planned on using stock 302 pistons, I let the machine shop order the crank/rods.

You can't count the cost of ARP bolts, they are needed on any Ford build!

Yes I can, the cost is an extra if I'm comparing machine work on the old rods PLUS the cost of new bolts, vs. new rods that come with bolts.

You also can't count the cost of those pistons because there are stock 302 pistons with healthy dishes and if you had used stock rods, you wouldn't of had the expense of floating pins.

True, was just trying to give some insight to the guy before he makes a decision. It wasn't that the floating pins are expensive, but the choice of pistons with floating pins is pretty slim. Still, the difference in $$ between the pistons I have vs. 'stock' 302 pistons is only +/- $100, still would've done the 408 kit w/forged.

Also, if the 393 crank needs balancing, how do you figure the 408 crank wouldn't need the same expense???

The 408 assembly does need balancing, look at the kits available, for an additional $140 to $170 they will balance everything for you. Problem with the 393 setups, and this isn't just me it's pretty common, is that they need to add Mallory metal to the crank to get it right. I don't know why. I do know it'll cost you $300 to balance if thats the case.

I understand the 408 is a killer combo, and not badly priced, but if you aren't racing and just want a strong street runner, the stock rod 393 is cool.

And for about $100 more the 408 will be about 15hp more cool, thats 15hp & torque everywhere not just peak.
If you're stock rods are in great shape then yes the 393 is the best $$ option. Just emphasizing that if you gotta do everything the 408 kit is a better choice. Besides I don't think the original poster is too worried about doing this as cheap as possible or he wouldn't be looking at AFR heads. Why are you so hung up on the 393 anyway?

 

[afterglow]

In your original post you mentioned the AFR 185 in a 61cc, now you say it's only available in a 58cc. Why is that? I thought they came in both 58 or 61?

AFR185's come in 58cc and 61cc and the 61cc will be perfect for the 393w. Moving up to the 408w just begs for the AFR205's which only come in 58cc.

I was also looking at the Canfields but I keep on going back to the AFR's flow numbers. The Canfields also warn about header clearance issues.....and I've had more than enough header clearance issues as is.

Oh....and emissions won't be an issue.....

The block is a 74 and came from a Galaxie so a roller cam is a no-go. Tranny is definitely a C6 but I'm currently eyeing a C4 that needs a new bellhousing.

 

[Dbiscayne]

I see, hadn't heard of the header problem with Canfields but I'm sure it's happened. That brings up another plus for going with the C4, it's a lot smaller than a C6, a lot more room for exhaust around that C4.
I've seen some really good power numbers with the Canfields, and Vic Jr's, as good as AFR's, flow numbers don't tell the whole story but I gotta agree those AFR's are some mean heads.
With the right cam that 393 will easily use everything the 205 heads can give, but I hear ya on the compression issue.

 

[ratio411]

Why are you so hung up on the 393 anyway?

I am not particularly hung up on the 393.
408 is probably my favorite stroker. The larger ones give up too much rod ratio, piston, and durability in general for what little you get.

You are probably right about the original poster not needing to save dough either.

I just got carried away with the conversation because it seems every time I mention a 393 lately, I get folks posting the 408 is same price. Which it isn't.

When you added the price of the rods in the equasion, and the other superflous stuff, I got into the arguement.
I like to argue anyway, it's just my thing.
Nothing personal.

To me, a build of a stock 351, 302, 393, or whatever requires aftermarket rod bolts and over-bore pistons. That is why I wouldn't count those as an 'extra' expense.
All in all, the 393 is 400 bux over and above in my mind, using your arguement.

Now I understand the 408 kit comes with much of what you would already buy even for a stock rebuild... ARP studs, pistons, bearings...
But that still only knocks the price down so much, and IMO not to the $400 threshold.

I see and respect your side, I also pretty much agree.
I just felt the need to defend the 393 as a cheaper option, even if only slightly cheaper.

I have said my piece!

Welcome to the board btw!

 

[danny clemens]

I just got carried away with the conversation because it seems every time I mention a 393 lately, I get folks posting the 408 is same price. Which it isn't.

I was the first one that mentioned the 408 and it was before you ever posted. It had nothing to do with you mentioning a 393. I said that it wouldn't cost much more and maybe not any more if new rods were bought. Like Dbiscayne said if you add ARP bolts and recondition your rods the cost of them are not that much different. You then have the cost difference of the pistons which are not that much more. Could you give me an example (including the price) of 302 pistons that would keep the compression of his build at 9.5? Yes, you do like to argue and that is the reason that I let it go.

 

[ratio411]

I was the first one that mentioned the 408 and it was before you ever posted.

You're right. I stand corrected.

Yes, you do like to argue and that is the reason that I let it go.

It's all in good fun and conversation.
It is about the love of the hobby and putting our heads together.
I get passionate about it, but as long as things are civil, at the end of the day, I love you guys!

Even if we agree to disagree!

 

[danny clemens]

You're right. I stand corrected.


It's all in good fun and conversation.
It is about the love of the hobby and putting our heads together.
I get passionate about it, but as long as things are civil, at the end of the day, I love you guys!

Even if we agree to disagree!

That's what it's all about.

 

[wickedmach1]

I went with a 393 because everyone is building the 408. I am tired of hearing about 408's. Desktop dyno is not realistic but shows 548hp @ 6000 RPM and 524 ft-lbs or torque @ 5000 RPM. The dyno is probably off about 10 - 12%. In my opinion, to get the most out of a 393 or 408 is to go with AFR205's and a Vic Jr. intake manifold. The cubes in both of these engines will want the extra flow of the Vic Jr. and the 205's. Since the 393 and 408 is a torque monster, you will have a crap load of low RPM torque which will stick you in your seat. Call Ed Curtis at Flowtech Induction for your camshaft. He is great to work with and is one of the best in custom cam grinds. Tell him what you expect and he will dial in the cam specifications. I think if you go with the combo you listed, you will cap the potential of the 393 and 408. I still think you will be satisfied since we are talking big HP and torque numbers that can get anyone into trouble. Good luck.