Can we have precision steering??

Jon350 · Jan 14, 2004

Before the hate mail starts coming i'd like you to know i love and auto-x my fastback and wouldn't trade it for the world...BUT i drove my friends 2002 honda S2000 through mullholand and PCH yesterday and it's seriously the closest shifter-cart feeling car i've ever driven. The steering had excellent feed back, and exact precision. not to mention they hit spot on with the shifter/clutch setup as far as feel.....it made me depressed. even though i have the quick steering flaming river kit and a new steering box it was still ....35 year old technology(sloppy.) I've also driven my friends 2000 GT on numerous occassions and even that steering setup is a little vague as far as feedback and slower turning compared to the honda

Ssssssooooooo at any rate I wanted to know if we too can achieve this level of steering nirvana? I'm well aware of TCP and almost bought one of their setups, but decided money could be better spent else where. Was i wrong? Do their steering kits really make it feel like a modern sports car? if not, what would or could? or am i just s**t outta luck?

chepsk8 · Jan 14, 2004

John,

there have been MANY threads about rack and pinion steering. Find them and read them. For those of us who have done the conversion, we all universally agree it made a tremendous difference. BUT!!!!!! You must remember, you are still driving a classic Mustang with it's specific front suspension architecture and body / wieght characteristics, totally different from the S2000 (which have driven numerous times, and love). You can signifigantly improve your pony, but it will NEVER equal the Honda. If you gotta have the Honda handling, rice it is.

chepsk8 · Jan 14, 2004

Duh, also forgot...

Don't forget the rest of the suspension and brakes. there's alot you can do there also to help.

zookeeper · Jan 14, 2004

Chepsk8 is absolutley right. You can greatly improve your cars handling, but let's be realistic you simply can't expect to compete with modern sports cars like the S2000. Honda did not spend millions developing the car so that it could take second place to a home-built hot rod. Auto-x is custom made for small cars like the Escort, Civic and Focus and even killers like the Viper and Corvette have tons of trouble with the small "economy" cars. I love my fastback, too as well as driving my wife's '69 427 'vette, but I'm not so unrealistic that I think either of them can complete with cars 30+ years newer. Now full-on road courses like Sears Point, Laguna Seca and such may be different, because horsepower comes into play, and drag strips are true playgrounds for our cars, but it's a real eye-opener to drive even marginal modern cars and then jump into a classic. Heck, I doubt my '68 could beat my clapped out 4x4 chevy truck on an auto-x course when it was stock.

hhead · Jan 14, 2004

obviously you don't have the 620 coils, and such. this basic suspension kit is only like $500. that with the sway bars and my car handled like a slot car. if the steering is sloppy still, get the bumpsteer kit. it tightens up the steering a little.

Jon350 · Jan 14, 2004

hhead said:
obviously you don't have the 620 coils, and such. this basic suspension kit is only like $500. that with the sway bars and my car handled like a slot car. if the steering is sloppy still, get the bumpsteer kit. it tightens up the steering a little.

I have 620 coils, koni gas shocks all around, shelby A-arm relocation,1 1/8th front sway bar,polyurethane bushings all around, monte-carlo bar, shock tower brace, global west subframes, 5 leaf mid eye rear, comp. engineering slide-a-links, and a pan hard bar(custom fab), Flaming River quick steering box(16:1).....i've lightened my car to the point where with me in it and a full tank of gas it weighed in @2980lbs..(and that's with an automatic and cast iron heads)..I may be young but i aint dumb....i supopse i have higher standards than you.

JimF65 · Jan 14, 2004

chepsk8 said:
John,

If you gotta have the Honda handling, rice it is.

Actually, no, it isn't. You can go better than the S2000 in an American-built car: The Z3 is even more precise on the track, and with significantly more power if you get the 3.0 (I've driven both).

But back to the thread - you're comparing the Mustang to a sports car. They are two different kinds of cars. The R&P will improve the Mustang, but not into sportscar territory.

zookeeper · Jan 15, 2004

hhead said:
obviously you don't have the 620 coils, and such. this basic suspension kit is only like $500. that with the sway bars and my car handled like a slot car. if the steering is sloppy still, get the bumpsteer kit. it tightens up the steering a little.

I'm curious, how exactly does a bumpsteer kit tighten up the steering? After all, what it really does is compensate for a change in steering geometry while the suspension goes through it's range of travel, so how could it possibly affect the steering accuracy?

BAD67FUN · Jan 15, 2004

I too like to autox and am stuck with old technology. What is our current stock steering ratio on a 67? And what options are available? Flaming River, TCP... any more? Who would you recommend?

Edbert · Jan 15, 2004

BAD67FUN said:
I too like to autox and am stuck with old technology. What is our current stock steering ratio on a 67? And what options are available? Flaming River, TCP... any more? Who would you recommend?

The gearbox on a stock Mustang was 16:1 on a power steering car in '67. I do not know the exact ratio of a manual gearbox but it was worse.

I have the TCP manual rack, flaming river priced their pretty agressively too. There's a new player in the R&P kit market too, I cannot recall their name offhand but they have ads in all the Mustang rags this month and there's a recent thread her in this forum about it. Any of the kits are going to run you about $1K when its all over. If thats too steep then you can do a retro-fit of a Taurus unit, or a GM J-model, an Escort has been done before too. Again there are multiple threads regarding these swaps. Randalls Rack is a good alternative too (www.randallsrack.com).

hhead · Jan 16, 2004

zookeeper said:
I'm curious, how exactly does a bumpsteer kit tighten up the steering? After all, what it really does is compensate for a change in steering geometry while the suspension goes through it's range of travel, so how could it possibly affect the steering accuracy?

this kit will decrease your turns lock to lock by about 1/2 turn. effectively tightening up your steering.

dodgestang · Jan 16, 2004

Jon350 said:
I have 620 coils, koni gas shocks all around, shelby A-arm relocation,1 1/8th front sway bar,polyurethane bushings all around, monte-carlo bar, shock tower brace, global west subframes, 5 leaf mid eye rear, comp. engineering slide-a-links, and a pan hard bar(custom fab), Flaming River quick steering box(16:1).....i've lightened my car to the point where with me in it and a full tank of gas it weighed in @2980lbs..(and that's with an automatic and cast iron heads)..I may be young but i aint dumb....i supopse i have higher standards than you.

You have done alot to help your car handle, I also recommend you install 2 front torque boxes...the 65s did not come with this and they will improve upon the chassis stiffening you have already done...I will assume you are running a 1 inch or better front sway as well.

Can we have precision steering??

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