Caster issue after Bilstein install

merc123 · Jul 12, 2010

I just put my my 4-year old Bilstein struts on the car and took it in for an alignment. The shop said he couldn't adjust the caster enough. He said he could only get 2 degrees out of it and drilled the rivets out of the top plates.

I had it aligned after I had my eibach kit (stock struts) put on back in 05 and the tech was able to get LF to 4.1 and RF to 3.7. Would the bilsteins really have that much affect or should I just go back to the body shop I had align it the first time with the eibachs?

The car doesn't drift even at highway speeds and tracks straight. The steering is amazingly responsive but not sure if that's because of the angles or the new struts. What's this going to do for tire wear? I have about 4 or 5 more months left on the set I have currently.

crazystang25 · Jul 12, 2010

caster wont affect the tire wear, and as for the alignment if you have the car lowered you need cc plates anyway. this gives plenty of adjustability for the alignment. and as far as cc plates are concerned i suggest MM above all others by far.

merc123 · Jul 12, 2010

I MM bought plates when I bought the lowering kit, just never put them on because I didn't need them. Toe is fine, it was the caster he couldn't get dialed in.

trombonedemon · Jul 13, 2010

I wonder how knowledgable is the alignment tech. Could be user error. I say get a second opinion, b/c some of those alignment equipment needs to be recalibrated, like tire balancing machines. Hope you didn't pay him yet. But this a great exscuse to get Caster Camber plates. Unless the shock has no gas in the cylinder what so ever, I mean completely gone, I don't see struts affecting the Caster or Camber, just drive quality!

Night Shifter · Jul 13, 2010

when i first lowered my car and put the CC plates on i took it to a reputable alignement shop here to have it aligned... when they were done the guy comes out and says, we couldnt get it properly aligned be cause you have aftermarket cc plates, you need to take them off and well drill a hole in the factory ones and be able to get it aligned... took my keys, laughed in his face, then learned how to align the car myself.....never trust anyone....

you may have taken it to a good well known place but maybe you need to take it elsewhere for another opinion...

trinity_gt · Jul 13, 2010

Struts should not affect caster. That parameter is basically set by drawing a line from the upper strut mount and the lower ball joint on the control arm. Assuming the car doesn't have CC plates merely installing struts should not have affected this since it's set by the stamping for the strut tower and where the K-member and control arm puts the ball joint.

Has the car even been in a heavy collision?

Has the car ever encountered a curb or other immovable object that didn't necessarily appear to cause obvious damage?

Is the K-member and LCAs stock?

If stock, has the K-member ever been out of the car?

hotcobra03 · Jul 13, 2010

merc123 said:
I just put my my 4-year old Bilstein struts on the car and took it in for an alignment. The shop said he couldn't adjust the caster enough. He said he could only get 2 degrees out of it and drilled the rivets out of the top plates.

I had it aligned after I had my eibach kit (stock struts) put on back in 05 and the tech was able to get LF to 4.1 and RF to 3.7. Would the bilsteins really have that much affect or should I just go back to the body shop I had align it the first time with the eibachs?

The car doesn't drift even at highway speeds and tracks straight. The steering is amazingly responsive but not sure if that's because of the angles or the new struts. What's this going to do for tire wear? I have about 4 or 5 more months left on the set I have currently.

ok something doesnt sound right here....

you took struts off installed eibach strut than took for alignment....4.1 on left and 3.7 on right would pull to the right yes? but this other guy claims rivots are still there? we never put back a rivot...

than i agree with the reply of how does caster change with strut change,or even camber if the springs were never changed.....

granted i worked with trucks,but ive done some cars...was there a wedge used on bottom of strut or holes oblonged for ajustments...instead of cc plates on top?

nyuk98gt · Jul 13, 2010

merc123:

There is quite a lot of movement available at the spindle. You can buy 'crash bolts' (eccentric bolts) for the lower strut mounting holes but I don't think you should need them. Your alignment tech may need to loosen the lower bolts to get a little more adjustment. (I am not an auto tech and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night but I know from experience that the lower bolts can buy you a good amount of adjustment.)

HTH,

Chris

merc123 · Jul 14, 2010

I'm not multi quoting so here goes:

The bilstein instructions said to get it aligned. After thinking about it the camber would be the only thing changed since the spinde angle moves when you tighten or loosen the top nut, no?

The rivets were still in it, they removed them (looked like with an air chisel and not a drill).

The only collision I had was hydroplaning and hitting the RF on a curb hard enough to knock out about a 7" piece of my chrome wheel. Everything else is stock (LCA, K-member). That happened in '06 so that could be why.

hotcobra03 · Jul 15, 2010

alignment

camber would be more like it ,, the 2 nut and bolts at the bottom of the strut would be where it moves ,with wedge or cam bolt. top will change when mount is loosened,,cc plates for looks,,an alignment is always suggested when anything has been touched...

find a better shop is all i can suggest,,,goodluck

that slite crash you had could have caused so unseen damage,,we hit a wall in a tunnel in pa.moved our irs to where wheel was 4deg pos,,,

SaleenGT2001 · Jul 15, 2010

post up the specs and i can tell you what, if anything needs to be fixed. i have been doing alignments for 7 years now. sounds like your guy has no clue

steve_stang2003 · Jul 15, 2010

SaleenGT2001 said:
post up the specs and i can tell you what, if anything needs to be fixed. i have been doing alignments for 7 years now. sounds like your guy has no clue

Hi!
I'm following this thread with interest because I am going to be changing the struts/shocks on my stock 2003 GT vert with 64k on it.

I still have the rivets and the car is NOT lowered.
Tracks perfect and tires wear evenly.

I'm thinking of Bilstein, Tokico or KYB on all for corners.

After having terrible experiences with alignments in the past on my other cars, I am nervous about letting anyone touch this.
I do all my own work and have toyed with doing a DIY alignment with a level, plumb bob etc.

Question is how will putting in new struts effect the alignment?

I can see possibly effecting camber if the bolt holes at the spindle end are slightly different from stock but shouldn't toe and caster remain the same because I'm not touching the tie rods nor the plates, assuming I don't go for CC plates etc.

The other option I am toying with is going all the way, getting the Eibach kit (struts, springs, anti-roll bars) for the Convertible and MM or Steeda CC plates.

I have a MM strut tower brace and it looks like it's going to be a tight fit on one side though.

Who makes the struts for the Eibach kits?
Are they any good?
TIA.

merc123 · Jul 16, 2010

SaleenGT2001 said:
post up the specs and i can tell you what, if anything needs to be fixed. i have been doing alignments for 7 years now. sounds like your guy has no clue

I'm going to take it to the body shop that did it last time. They actually gave a print out so I'll scan it when it's all said and done. This shop probably doesn't know what a printer is.

steve_stang2003 · Jul 16, 2010

merc123 said:
I'm going to take it to the body shop that did it last time. They actually gave a print out so I'll scan it when it's all said and done. This shop probably doesn't know what a printer is.

I can understand your frustration.
A few years ago I had to have my Caprice aligned after buying new tires. The tire place did it on a state of the art Hunter machine and gave me the print out. As I was driving home, I could feel the car was not right. Pulling and squealing on turns.
When I got home, I looked at the printout, which was actually screen shots of the procedure as well.

The angles were all out of spec.
Every single one.

To make a long story short, I went back and had to explain to the manager why -0.45 is NOT between 0 and 1.25.

I had to draw them a number line!!!!!

Then I watched as the tech did the job again.

The screen actually showed him what to do, what bolt to turn and all he had to do was turn it until 2 rows of **** lined up with each other.

IOW:
*******
*******

Instead of:

******
*******
To this day I have a phobia about alignment shops!
I'm sure there are excellent ones out there but they are difficult to locate.

SaleenGT2001 · Jul 16, 2010

doing your own alignment is a TERRIBLE idea. you may get close (i doubt it) but the measurements are too precise to eyeball. you may get camber in spec but toe is MUCH harder to get correct and even i would not attempt to do that without a machine for any purpose other than to get it close enough to drive to a shop. this is just my professional opinion so take it how you want, but i would not trust a piece of string to set my car up. we arent in the 1950's anymore!

SaleenGT2001 · Jul 16, 2010

steve_stang2003 said:
To make a long story short, I went back and had to explain to the manager why -0.45 is NOT between 0 and 1.25.

if that is a camber measurement the -0.45 would have been better. chevy likes to run positive camber a lot in their cars.(not good for handling) factory specs for most cars are crap. i would make my own specs on my personal and friends vehicles. i can make the vehicle sit the way I want it to!

hotcobra03 · Jul 16, 2010

SaleenGT2001 said:
doing your own alignment is a TERRIBLE idea. you may get close (i doubt it) but the measurements are too precise to eyeball. you may get camber in spec but toe is MUCH harder to get correct and even i would not attempt to do that without a machine for any purpose other than to get it close enough to drive to a shop. this is just my professional opinion so take it how you want, but i would not trust a piece of string to set my car up. we arent in the 1950's anymore!

someone who understands what they are doing can do a driveway alignment and i bet would be closer than a machine....

machine makes it faster.... we do truck alignments and we use all hand gauges and a toe bar...

specs went out the door years ago,,,we align to the vechile as it would ride down the road...

i havent touched the cobra yet in the front but have done the rear ...60k on rear wheel tire wear...car has all orignal parts and has 272k on it,,,,,

cant wait for the guys read out...

SaleenGT2001 · Jul 17, 2010

i just dont trust a mechanical gauge to give me the measurements i want. most large trucks only have a toe adjustment, so there arent nearly as many factors that come into play.

how would you get your SAI readings without a machine and what about the thrust angle? i guess i may just be spoiled be using a really nice aligner but i dont see how anyone could do with just a driveway alignment on a newer vehicle. MAYBE someone with a background and tons of experience could make it work, but not the average guy who wrenches on the weekends

hotcobra03 · Jul 17, 2010

caster/camber

SaleenGT2001 said:
i just dont trust a mechanical gauge to give me the measurements i want. most large trucks only have a toe adjustment, so there arent nearly as many factors that come into play.

how would you get your SAI readings without a machine and what about the thrust angle? i guess i may just be spoiled be using a really nice aligner but i dont see how anyone could do with just a driveway alignment on a newer vehicle. MAYBE someone with a background and tons of experience could make it work, but not the average guy who wrenches on the weekends

trucks are fully adjustable ,,,axle gets bent for camber change than wedges are used on the spring for caster..

you metioned thrust angle,is that the same as set back?....the guys across the street from me do cars,,,only ...iirc correctly thats not adjustable

steve_stang2003 · Jul 17, 2010

SaleenGT2001 said:
if that is a camber measurement the -0.45 would have been better. chevy likes to run positive camber a lot in their cars.(not good for handling) factory specs for most cars are crap. i would make my own specs on my personal and friends vehicles. i can make the vehicle sit the way I want it to!

I'm just making the numbers up to illustrate a point.
I don't remember what the actual values were, but the gist of it is the tech and his manager needed a lesson in basic math.

Caster issue after Bilstein install

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