Cold air intake on 5.0 with H/C/I

[91notchbk]

I know this is a subject that has been discussed plenty in prevoius posts. It seems most guys on this site come to the consensus that a CAI will not increase any gains overs a stock air box with the silencer removed and a panel K&N filter on a 5.0. There is even an article that verifies this theory in musclemustang that compares a Moroso CAI vs stock air box and K&N.

However, these claims are on a stock 5.0 motor. I am curious if anybody has any dyno sheets to show a gain with a CAI on a car with heads/cam/intake. JLT performance claims that their cold air intake has a dyno proven 8-12 hp on a foxbody mustang with heads/cam/intake combination.

http://www.jlttruecoldair.com/proof.htm

 

[samickguy15]

I think your gains are going to come from being able to pass the air through the filter efficiently. You really just need a source of non-engine bay air and a large enough filter to allow free-flow without restriction. You generally have to go CAI to do that though.

 

[MrXCESSIVESPEED]

I like the AFM powerpipe... Anderson may have some dyno results for them on their site. They usually dyno EVERYTHING!! haha

 

[stykthyn]

the only true benefit of buying an aftermarket CAI is that you eliminate unwanted bends and restrictions by going with a uniform width pipe.
IMHO the $20 ebay pipe flows just as well as the 200 piece from K&N and the the other name brands.
where JLT and other companies get there dyno increases from is the removal of the air silencers. the silencer contains baffles whose sole function is to slow the air down so the driver wont have to hear his intake sucking in air all the time. removing this restriction is where the increase in HP will come from along with moving the filter away from the engine bay where it will not suck in hot air.
Since the restriction from the silencer is removed the amount of air that can be moved through the pipe is only limited by the size of the pipe itself, and at standard atmospheric pressure the amount of air that flows through the pipe itself is more than the engine can actually pull.

 

[91notchbk]

the only true benefit of buying an aftermarket CAI is that you eliminate unwanted bends and restrictions by going with a uniform width pipe.
IMHO the $20 ebay pipe flows just as well as the 200 piece from K&N and the the other name brands.
where JLT and other companies get there dyno increases from is the removal of the air silencers. the silencer contains baffles whose sole function is to slow the air down so the driver wont have to hear his intake sucking in air all the time. removing this restriction is where the increase in HP will come from along with moving the filter away from the engine bay where it will not suck in hot air.
Since the restriction from the silencer is removed the amount of air that can be moved through the pipe is only limited by the size of the pipe itself, and at standard atmospheric pressure the amount of air that flows through the pipe itself is more than the engine can actually pull.

That is a good point. The dyno increase "may" come from removal of the air silencer. How do you know that JLT tested the stock air box with the silencer removed?

 

[stykthyn]

in a dyno comparison you want to test a stock unit vs modified. that way you get an acutal representation of any gains to be offered.
It's just like every science experiment you have done since the 3rd grade: you have your control group(stock) and then your experimental group.
if they did a comparison on a modified car they would be shortchanging themselves by "only" advertising such a small gain of 12 hp
If that was true they could legally claim without misrepresentation a gain of lets say 25hp over a bone stock unit.
on the store shelf what would look better 12 or 25hp?

 

[5spd GT]

Unless I trust the guy in person or over the web, I typically do not believe dyno or track gains, due to many different changes that can be made.

JLT does make a high quality cold air intake though.

I think there is a strong possibility that a gain could be had, but it would be a very slight gain. Something not felt...

Rick Anderson's power pipes are pretty nice as well, 3.5" or 4" versions...

 

[bloopbloob]

in a dyno comparison you want to test a stock unit vs modified. that way you get an acutal representation of any gains to be offered.
It's just like every science experiment you have done since the 3rd grade: you have your control group(stock) and then your experimental group.
if they did a comparison on a modified car they would be shortchanging themselves by "only" advertising such a small gain of 12 hp
If that was true they could legally claim without misrepresentation a gain of lets say 25hp over a bone stock unit.
on the store shelf what would look better 12 or 25hp?

how many mustangs are out there that still have the air silencer on them? Where's the proof that the hp gains arent coming from just the removal of the air silencer? they claim that their product adds horsepower. if they are removing a piece from the car, they should do their comparison against a stock car with that same restrictive piece removed. thats like swapping plug wires, taking off the stock mufflers, and claiming the new spark plug wires caused a 15hp increase over a stock car.

if i were to believe all the advertised gains from my bolt on's, i'd have a 300+ rwhp car.
eg: tb(10-15), ud pullies (10-15), c&l MAF system (20+), ram air (25), k&n filter (10-15), long tubes (30+), O/R x-pipe (15+), catback (30+).


tests can be worked to make these kind of claims true under certain conditions, but the majority of users will never see the numbers they claim.

 

[stykthyn]

how many mustangs are out there that still have the air silencer on them? Where's the proof that the hp gains arent coming from just the removal of the air silencer? they claim that their product adds horsepower. if they are removing a piece from the car, they should do their comparison against a stock car with that same restrictive piece removed. thats like swapping plug wires, taking off the stock mufflers, and claiming the new spark plug wires caused a 15hp increase over a stock car.

if i were to believe all the advertised gains from my bolt on's, i'd have a 300+ rwhp car.
eg: tb(10-15), ud pullies (10-15), c&l MAF system (20+), ram air (25), k&n filter (10-15), long tubes (30+), O/R x-pipe (15+), catback (30+).


tests can be worked to make these kind of claims true under certain conditions, but the majority of users will never see the numbers they claim.

that is what I was trying to explain. any test on a performance part should be done against a unit that is stock. whether it has always been stock or returned to that condition it doesnt matter. without a properly operating "stock" platform there would be no baseline for any performance comparison whether it was good or bad.
Is JLT a good product? I am sure that it is. Does it produce an extra 12hp? most likely not on anything that sits in my driveway. There are literally dozens of process engineering controls that will allow a person to manipulate any sort of data they want. In a manufacturing environment no two processes run the same twice, so therefore no two pieces will be exactly the same. The standards of deviation that occur both in the car and on the CAI that is being tested will differ from unit to unit. Perhaps not something that may be immediately noticeable, but is none the less still there. That is why we have some cars that are factory freaks and run like a raped ape straight from the show room floor and others that run like crap from the get go. The advertised 8-12 is an average, but an average of how many dyno runs on how many cars? There could be thousands of tests done with dozens of cars with results ranging from 2-20hp and the resulting posted average comes out to 8-12.
But, I digress. back to the original question. no I do not believe that a CAI of any brand will offer better numbers with an H/C/I upgrade. The upgraded equipment will make better use of the air flowing to it, but in the end only so much air will fit into the pipe. (unless you go forced induction )

 

[91notchbk]

The issue for me is that there is actually not a comparison of the stock airbox, silencer removed, with a K&N vs a cold air intake on a vehicle with a good H/C/I combination.

 

[ninety15.0]

Obviously a car with a GOOD HCI package is going to need a CAI at some point. I think that cutoff is around 300 rwhp. So that would mean you would nead something at least comparable to a trick flow top end kit with the supporting mods like full exhaust, MAF, and injectors. At this point the stock upper tube is what is really holding you back. its ribbed and really only about 3" in diameter at the most. The stock air box with a K&N and the silencer removed is actually a good setup. Maybe just toss a C&L true flow upper pipe on there for short money.

Either way you arent going to see any noticeable gains on a 300rwhp car...perhaps like 5-10 hp at the wheels on a strong combo. I have been considering running a better upper intake pipe on my car...but i just cant justify the money for little to no gain. I think money would be better spent someplace else. good luck man