crate engines. Please Mr. Ford, please reciprocate

jerry S · Dec 5, 2005

I don't know how long Mopar has been doing this but you can get a factory fresh Mopar Hemis in 426, 472, or for the really brave, 528.

http://www.mopar.com/muscle/whatshot1005.htm

Oh man oh man. I am scouring the US right now for a 1970-1974 cudas or challangers in need of engines. But I would quit right now if Fords were to offer a 427 side oiler or a 428CJ or SCJ, or dare I say it, a 429 Boss?!!

Way to go Mopar. Keeping it real.

rbohm · Dec 5, 2005

i guess ford's 460 and 514 crate motors are not good enough for you?

Dark Knight · Dec 5, 2005

Actually, ford is comming out with a 427 side oiler with iron or alum. block. The blocks are made by Genesis http://www.genesis427.com/index.htm
Complete engine as well as just the blocks will be available next year. M-6010-A 427 for the bare block, M6007-A427 for the crate engine.

There's no real point in making a new Boss 429, there are wedge heads out there that will kill the boss heads for flow, and are cheaper to produce. John Force was working on a boss 429 hemi for NHRA top fuel, but NHRA killed that with rule changes.

Hack · Dec 5, 2005

That's exactly why you can buy a Chrysler hemi - they are used in all the top fuel drags so they are very common.

Too bad the good old boys network couldn't allow Ford to play.

We coulda took them!!

jerry S · Dec 5, 2005

rbohm said:
i guess ford's 460 and 514 crate motors are not good enough for you?

they are awesome engines that's for sure but there is something about not just having 427 or 428 emblems on your car but having the engine in there too.

Gud T.B. Blown · Dec 5, 2005

you can also buy an aluminum 427 side oiler brand new from carrol shelby. and instead of having two cross bolted mains, the new ones have four. very pricey too.

69Rcode_Mach1 · Dec 5, 2005

My friends family owns Kirkham Motorsports (Produce aluminum bodied Cobras) and they had one of the Blown 540's producing over 1200hp. It was one of the most beautiful engines I had ever seen, and on top of that the whole engine was polished aluminum. They were going to put it in a polished copper bodied cobra. Things was impressive. I wish ford would update their older technology.

302 coupe · Dec 5, 2005

I'd rather have a 500+ cube 385 series BBF than a FE any day of the week. FE's are cool and all, but there is a reason why they quit making them a long time ago.

1320stang · Dec 5, 2005

You can have a 500+ cube FE as well. I know of a couple of guys with 511" FEs, one of them will be centrifically blown.

The stock FE life was longer than the stock 385 life too I believe.

There's one guy hoping to have new SOHC crate motors for sale in about a year starting at $18k

65ShelbyClone · Dec 5, 2005

1320stang said:
The stock FE life was longer than the stock 385 life too I believe.

There's one guy hoping to have new SOHC crate motors for sale in about a year starting at $18k

They had similar like spans. I think the FE came out in '56 or 57 and ended in the late '70s. The 429 was intro'd around '69 and they quit around the mid '90s. I think the 385 replaced FEs as a truck engine for the only reason Ford ever changes anything: it's cheaper to make and/or more profitable.

SOHCs as in Cammer 427s? Dang, $18K wont even buy an original!

1320stang · Dec 5, 2005

You may be right, I think the FE span went from '58 to I think we determined '81 in some U-hauls with a FT engine. Not sure with the industrial engines. I think '95-'96 was the end of the 460.

I think the big reason for the 385's was the HP wars of the late 60's. They needed larger bore spacing and taller deck blocks.

Yes, SOHC as in the real SOHC, Cammers. There are about 3 different people that I know of trying to get the heads to market, plus other manufacturers reproducing the other parts that you can't get new right now. I know the Genesis block and the Pond blocks can be used with the Cammer heads, I'm not sure about the Shelby block, but I suspect it can be. The other thing is, one guy is making two different aluminnum Cammer heads, one is original style and the other is a race only version!!! He was hoping to have prototypes this coming fall.

65ShelbyClone · Dec 5, 2005

I wasnt sure about exact dates so I roughed it a little. The thing that really makes me wonder about the true purpose of the 385 is the fact that the only "muscle" cars that got them were Boss 429s, and that was for NASCAR homologation. The rest went into trucks and big cars(I think) and especially after '74. I think the FE was alot more versatile anyway.

That would be great to have some new aluminum SOHC heads without the porosity problems. I couldnt imagine an FE with those giant heads cast in iron.

I thought the SOHC heads were more or less race-only......I bet a cylinder would balloon before the heads ran out.

Gud T.B. Blown · Dec 6, 2005

65ShelbyClone said:
65ShelbyClone said:

I wasnt sure about exact dates so I roughed it a little. The thing that really makes me wonder about the true purpose of the 385 is the fact that the only "muscle" cars that got them were Boss 429s, and that was for NASCAR homologation. The rest went into trucks and big cars(I think) and especially after '74. I think the FE was alot more versatile anyway.

Click to expand...

you are forgetting about the 429cj and scj in the '71 mustangs. one purpose of the '71 redesign was widen the engine compartment so the 385 would fit.

Dark Knight · Dec 6, 2005

The main reason the 429's and 460's never went into performance cars was because of the 70's gas and insurance crunch.. the engine was designed to be bigger.. you can stroke it to 557 cubes without notching anything...

385 series ran from 1968 to 1997..

There isnt an FE head out there that will flow like some of the 460 heads available now.. including the SOHC and tunnel port..

LMan · Dec 6, 2005

jerry S said:
they are awesome engines that's for sure but there is something about not just having 427 or 428 emblems on your car but having the engine in there too.

Build a 427 Windsor and you can use that 427 emblem.

1320stang · Dec 6, 2005

Well, when they're designing heads for 800+ cubic inch engines, I'd say your right, but can you afford those heads and would you be running them on the street? You may or may not be able to afford them, but you ain't gonna be running them on the street. You could also say that there are no 385 heads flowing like the Top Fuel Hemi heads either.

But for street/strip heads, you'd be suprised. Kaase advertises a Stage I SCJ head that flows @ .700", 355 Int./249 Exh. These are the heads that Jon designed and has put his touch to them. Out of the box they're 345 Int./225 Exh. but it doesn't say at what lift.

Now to compare that with the new Blue Thunder Medium Riser heads which should be comparable to the SCJ heads as far as performance as to when they first came out. The Blue Thunder heads were designed by Cary at E.T. Performance. They offer a set of street/strip heads that flow @ .700" 358 Int./240 Exh. but it doesn't say if these are out of the box or with Stage I port work.

Pretty damn close, plus a FE weighs less than a 385, an aluminum headed, aluminum intaked FE weight about the same as an iron headed 351W.

The drag race/car show I put on in 2004, I had a guy with a '41 Ford Business Coupe with a 427 SOHC that DROVE the car from California to Oklahoma and had NO trailer following him for backup. He was traveling with a group of other people though. He then DROVE the car to Carlisle, then to Detroit, then home.

jbuening · Dec 6, 2005

There is a company producing Boss 429 blocks as well as heads and cranks for them. Cannot for the life of me remember the company name but i did remember that the block alone was more than most crate motors. That and too much hard to find bracketry and pulleys unless you own a machine shop.

Hack · Dec 6, 2005

I would say don't forget the 4.6 and 5.4 mod motors. I understand there's no substitute for cubic inches, especially for high dollar drag cars, but there are a ton of OHC V8 cars in junkyards with cheap donor motors. For most people's purposes the mod motors are more than enough. Or you can add a supercharger if need be.

Want to run a powerful OHC V8 for less than $3,000? IMO that's the way to go. Lighter and more power/displacement than the old pushrod stuff. Also revs better.

Tight fit in an old Mustang, though. Just as tight a fit as a big block.

Dark Knight · Dec 6, 2005

1320stang said:
But for street/strip heads, you'd be suprised. Kaase advertises a Stage I SCJ head that flows @ .700", 355 Int./249 Exh. These are the heads that Jon designed and has put his touch to them. Out of the box they're 345 Int./225 Exh. but it doesn't say at what lift.

Now to compare that with the new Blue Thunder Medium Riser heads which should be comparable to the SCJ heads as far as performance as to when they first came out. The Blue Thunder heads were designed by Cary at E.T. Performance. They offer a set of street/strip heads that flow @ .700" 358 Int./240 Exh. but it doesn't say if these are out of the box or with Stage I port work.

QUOTE]

I have a set of the Kaase heads, Mild port work
.100" 88 / 66
.200" 177 / 111
.300" 252 / 147
.400" 312 / 177
.500" 344 / 201
.600" 355 / 226
.700" 365 / 250
.800" 375 / 263

Kaase is comming out with a new set of SCJ heads that flow 400cfm out of the box..

Check http://www.etheads.com/00products.htm#
The blue thunder thor heads out flow the pro stock hemi head..

Not an end all, but this is cool to compare flow numbers
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

jerry S · Dec 6, 2005

Hack said:
I would say don't forget the 4.6 and 5.4 mod motors. I understand there's no substitute for cubic inches, especially for high dollar drag cars, but there are a ton of OHC V8 cars in junkyards with cheap donor motors. For most people's purposes the mod motors are more than enough. Or you can add a supercharger if need be.

Want to run a powerful OHC V8 for less than $3,000? IMO that's the way to go. Lighter and more power/displacement than the old pushrod stuff. Also revs better.
.

That is so true. There is a US soldier in Germay with a 1999 mustang that he has modded with FR500 cams, FR500 intake, and FR500 cylinder heads. It makes 410 rwhp with no blower, turbo, or nitrous. Pretty damn impressive for a little 4.6 especially when you consider that his flywheel hp is about the same as that 426 Hemi I was gushing over.

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