disc conversion on 1968 mustang

2+2GT said:

Yes, the difference between the Granada and K/H brake is only about 3% swept area.

One of my chief problems with the Granada brake is the hubs are so large virtually no stock 65-73 wheel will fit, adding hundreds of dollars of cost to conversion even if one uses junkyard wheels. Do the hubs of the Cobra brake fit, say, stock 65 14x5 wheels?

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There are two options if installing Granada front discs; purchase wheels that will fit over the snout of the rotor, or have the snout turned down to fit the center hole of an early stock wheel.


In the case of the Cobra front rotor setup, the front hub is an early Mustang hub. Any 5-lug drum brake hub from a '65-'73 Mustang, Cougar, Maverick, Comet, etc., will work to mount the 13" rotor to. This setup will require at least a 17" diameter wheel to clear the caliper/rotor, but somone looking to make this big of an increase in braking power isn't worried about ditching the small, stock 14" or 15" wheels for larger ones.

I guess what really concerns me is the Folks that Display, Sell the Granada setup as "Mustang Disc Brakes".

They are not a thing about those that are Mustang..

Not a thing will fit from a Mustang Disc brake system to the Granada.

We sell Rotors, Calipers, Hardware to those in Germany, Australia, England, and so forth all over the world.

They order Rotors, calipers, hardware, brackets, anything, from us, or Mustangs Unlimited, CJ Pony, they recieve them, they don't fit, These Folks are very upset, spent XXXX Dollars to send, can't use these parts, They are Really Pissed, they are upset, we are trying to help, figure it out, and find out they are Granada brakes someone has put on to profit in the exchange. This really Ticks me off-------------Yes this has happened many times here in the US, and overseas since this Granada thing has transpired.

The Granada pushers State "These are Like the Original" and Folks don't know the Difference---There in not ONE PART of a Granada that fits the original 65-73 Mustang Disc Brakes, Not Tomorrow, or 30 years from now.



Dan @

ChockoStang

The shop near here does a lot of business overseas, that those customers are eternally grateful the stuff they get fits, works, and looks right. They even give a heads-up if some repro item is a bit "off", but is all that's available. Over the years I have head many horror stories of Mustangs that get shipped overseas, and turn out to be horrific mis-matched parts collections. These folks can't just go down to Pep Boys and match up their worn brake pads until they get a match.

chockostang said:

I guess what really concerns me is the Folks that Display, Sell the Granada setup as "Mustang Disc Brakes".

They are not a thing about those that are Mustang..

Not a thing will fit from a Mustang Disc brake system to the Granada.

We sell Rotors, Calipers, Hardware to those in Germany, Australia, England, and so forth all over the world.

They order Rotors, calipers, hardware, brackets, anything, from us, or Mustangs Unlimited, CJ Pony, they recieve them, they don't fit, These Folks are very upset, spent XXXX Dollars to send, can't use these parts, They are Really Pissed, they are upset, we are trying to help, figure it out, and find out they are Granada brakes someone has put on to profit in the exchange. This really Ticks me off-------------Yes this has happened many times here in the US, and overseas since this Granada thing has transpired.

The Granada pushers State "These are Like the Original" and Folks don't know the Difference---There in not ONE PART of a Granada that fits the original 65-73 Mustang Disc Brakes, Not Tomorrow, or 30 years from now.



Dan @

ChockoStang

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I'm sure you and your shills weep for our friends overseas.

That's a strange argument of why Granada parts and conversions should not be offered, but I'll play along...

I'm not sure who's passing the 'Granada' brakes off as "stock Mustang components", but then again it's always the owner's/potential owner's responsibility, in reference to purchasing a vintage Mustang, to know what they are purchasing and what changes have been made to it before purchase. If this information is not obtained before purchase, then it is their responsiblity to figure out what changes have been made and figure out what those changes are.

Should the production/sale of Granada disc conversion parts be stopped just because a small number of people don't know what brake parts are on the car they have just bought?

Anyone that's purchasing a vehicle that's up to 45 years old has to expect there's a very good chance it's not completely "factory stock" anymore. --especially considering that very few vintage Mustangs ever came with front discs anyway.

Suppose someone purchases your K/H setup and puts it on a '68 [formerly drum brake] Mustang. Later on, that '68 gets sold to someone over seas and then that person goes to buy stock disc brake replacement parts for that '68. There's nothing in your K/H 4-piston kit that is going to work for them, if they are buying actual stock '68 disc replacement parts, because the '68 had completely different brakes from the former K/H system.

--In fact, the '68-'73 Mustang disc brake setups were very close cousins to the Granada setup --not the 4-piston K/H setup. How "mad" do you think that is going to make them, after the expenses of buying stock '68 disc brake replacement parts, only to find out the disc brake setup on their '68 doesn't actually have "stock" '68 discs on it? Does this potential situation mean that you should stop selling the K/H setup, because of the potential problem it could invoke for a select few?

Baer, Wilwood, SSBC also sell disc brake conversions and not all conversion parts they sell has their their logo on them. Should they stop selling and go out of business too, because they are definitely creating potential owner confusion of what brake parts they produce/sell that's ending up on various Mustangs and early Fords?

There are various disc brake systems on the market --both stock and aftermarket. Some function right on par with others. Some perform exceedingly above others. There's plenty of room in the market for producers/manufacturers of all the systems available.

ultrastang said:

That's a strange argument of why Granada parts and conversions should not be offered, but I'll play along...

I'm not sure who's passing the 'Granada' brakes off as "stock Mustang components", but then again it's always the owner's/potential owner's responsibility, in reference to purchasing a vintage Mustang, to know what they are purchasing and what changes have been made to it before purchase. If this information is not obtained before purchase, then it is their responsiblity to figure out what changes have been made and figure out what those changes are.

Should the production/sale of Granada disc conversion parts be stopped just because a small number of people don't know what brake parts are on the car they have just bought?

Anyone that's purchasing a vehicle that's up to 45 years old has to expect there's a very good chance it's not completely "factory stock" anymore. --especially considering that very few vintage Mustangs ever came with front discs anyway.

Suppose someone purchases your K/H setup and puts it on a '68 [formerly drum brake] Mustang. Later on, that '68 gets sold to someone over seas and then that person goes to buy stock disc brake replacement parts for that '68. There's nothing in your K/H 4-piston kit that is going to work for them, if they are buying actual stock '68 disc replacement parts, because the '68 had completely different brakes from the former K/H system.

--In fact, the '68-'73 Mustang disc brake setups were very close cousins to the Granada setup --not the 4-piston K/H setup. How "mad" do you think that is going to make them, after the expenses of buying stock '68 disc brake replacement parts, only to find out the disc brake setup on their '68 doesn't actually have "stock" '68 discs on it? Does this potential situation mean that you should stop selling the K/H setup, because of the potential problem it could invoke for a select few?

Baer, Wilwood, SSBC also sell disc brake conversions and not all conversion parts they sell has their their logo on them. Should they stop selling and go out of business too, because they are definitely creating potential owner confusion of what brake parts they produce/sell that's ending up on various Mustangs and early Fords?

There are various disc brake systems on the market --both stock and aftermarket. Some function right on par with others. Some perform exceedingly above others. There's plenty of room in the market for producers/manufacturers of all the systems available.

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Steve,
I applaud your eloquent effort to clarify this issue. The Granada swap has been and continues to be a useful and effective method to convert the front drum brakes to disc. That said, I suspect that you are wasting your time. You have probably followed my long running effort to rebut the self serving B.S. posted by this same vendor. His argument has shifted back and forth between false or illogical claims of "cheap parts", to ill fitting parts, to non original parts, and now to the cheap "granada pusher" tag.

In my mind, a pusher is someone who will "push", without regard to the buyers needs, only that which he has for sale. I don't really have a large interest in the "Granada" based disc brake conversion. We offer a wide range of front disc brake conversion products and most of our kits installed on Mustang are KH based, and most of the Granada type spindles that we sell are installed on hot rods, or are used as a platform for large rotor brake kits, or are used on 65-66 6 cylinder cars. An honest vendor will recommend the product that is best suited to the application, and the buyer's budget. For this and several other reasons, I probably shouldn't bother with this argument. I am compelled to participate only because I don't care for the cynical spread of misinformation.

Degins, Ultrastang and MustangSteve all offer a great product for us to convert our cars to disc brakes....be it front only or front/rear.
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I personally chose MustangSteves '07-up kit for the front and did the Crown-vic disc on the rear. IF..and I mean IF, I decide to sell my car and neglect to inform the buyer of the conversion, shame on me...
Degins, Ultrastang and MustangSteve did not "PUSH" anything on me, when I was choosing my conversion, ALL 3 gave me some excellent advice, I made the final decision.

chockostang...take a deep breath and relax..good grief.

CSRP didn't invent the 'Granda swap'. People recognized a long time ago that these brake components would work on early Mustangs and Fords years before CSRP came into existence. I had converted my [4-wheel drum brake] '68 Mustang to Granada front discs using wrecking yard components back in 1990. --This was long before CSRP was around or finally began reproducing this conversion in 2004.

I wasn't concerned if the Granada brakes were "period-correct" or even "stock" for my '68. My primary concern was greatly improving its braking ability over the stock drums --which it vastly did. The same sentimate is probably also true for the vast majority of the people who elect to use this system on their early Mustang or related Ford. --they aren't concerned about its orginality. They are more concerned about an economical brake system that's far more superior to the drums it replaces.

CSRP did, however, see that this was a very viable braking system to use for early Fords and the supply of wrecking yard Granada brake parts was quickly drying up so they began reproducing it. None of the 'Granada' components, offered in the conversion kit by CSRP, contains wrecking yard refurb parts. All the components in the kit --including the spindle castings themselves, are completely brand new castings.

They are not a "cheap" [as in low quailty] reproduction, although they are relatively a cheap kit to purchase compared to most other disc brake conversion systems. A large amount of expense went into insuring that they were a high quality reproduction and that strict attention to tight quality control standards was placed into the manufacture of the components.

I am currently a dealer for CSRP, but I was promoting CSRP's 'Granada' setup long before I even had any ties to them at all. My dealership status didn't come about until well after-the-fact. If they didn't offer a quality product, I would not risk soiling my own reputation in having anything to do with them.

'Granada' brakes aren't "stock" to any Mustang, but then as I had previously mentioned, '65-'67 K/H 4-piston disc brakes are not "stock" to a '68-'73 Mustang either, --and I'm fairly certain that those brake systems have been sold to owners and then installed on the later '68-'73 model Mustangs. If Granada brakes are incorrect for any Mustang, then the early K/H 4-piston system is just as equally wrong for any Mustang application '68-'73 for any potential confusion it my create for a future owner of the vehicle they are being put on.

I'm sure Chocostang sells a quality product --so does CSRP and a lot of other people.

I offer the early Mustang/related Ford owner another direction, geared more toward the "performance aspect" of the disc brake conversion spectrum, with adapter brackets that allows owners to use later model Ford [tested and proven] disc brake components, both for the front or rear of the vehicle.

My "home made" [as Chocostang put it] performance disc brake adaptive systems, are testiment to the fact that something doesn't have to be a product of the Ford factory to be a quality component to yield both excellent and effective results. In nearly a decade of offering conversion brackets for disc brake upgrades, I've had ZERO complaints of what I offer by any of my customers during this time. I would say that's a very good track record by anyone's standards.

Nobody is knocking Chocostang's offerings. In the interest of professionalism though, it would be wise for them to stop knocking other people's offerings --especially given to the fact that the people being 'knocked' have an established and proven record of offering quality products and exemplary customer service [that many former customers would attest to].

...now, I have things to do and I'm done with this conversation. It's unfortunate that I have to spend my valuable time here defending the intended inflicted damage of others to mine and other people's reputations, because of the misinformation purported by others just for the simple reason that they don't like having any competition. Trying to make others look bad ultimately comes back on the one doing it. You end up losing far more than anything you gain by it.

ultrastang said:

CSRP did, however, see that this was a very viable braking system to use for early Fords and the supply of wrecking yard Granada brake parts was quickly drying up so they began reproducing it. None of the 'Granada' components, offered in the conversion kit by CSRP, contains wrecking yard refurb parts. All the components in the kit --including the spindle castings themselves, are completely brand new castings.

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I'm curious, are the CSRP spindles dimensionally matched to the 68 Mustang spindle, the 70 Mustang spindle, or the Granada spindle? Each was distinctly different, with, for example, outer tie rod end pin size, and of course, bearing size.

2+2GT said:

I'm curious, are the CSRP spindles dimensionally matched to the 68 Mustang spindle, the 70 Mustang spindle, or the Granada spindle? Each was distinctly different, with, for example, outer tie rod end pin size, and of course, bearing size.

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There are two models offered. One is dimensionally identical to the Granada spindle, and the other is the same except the steering arm is configured to yield stock 65-66 steering geometry.

degins said:

There are two models offered. One is dimensionally identical to the Granada spindle, and the other is the same except the steering arm is configured to yield stock 65-66 steering geometry.

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Interesting. I can understand a 64-66 version, but why not a 68 or 70 counterpart? There's nothing intrinsically superior to the Granada version, and a 68 or 70 would have the advantage of using totally "year correct" repair parts.

2+2GT said:

Interesting. I can understand a 64-66 version, but why not a 68 or 70 counterpart? There's nothing intrinsically superior to the Granada version, and a 68 or 70 would have the advantage of using totally "year correct" repair parts.

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I don't believe that the provenience of the brakes will be an issue in the future. For those owner where it is, a complete parts list is included with every kit. We also offer a kit that uses 68-73 correct calipers/hardware/hoses (70-73 rotors). Fact is though, the typical buyer wants utility and value, not originality. The disc brakes used on 68-73 Mustang are much more complicated and expensive to install and maintain and they are no more effective.

There is a clear advantage of the Granada spindle version over the 65-69 versions. It has a larger diameter spindle pin, like the 70-73 type. I also see no cost feasible way, nor an advantage, to offering year correct spindles with correct tie rod mounting hole size. This would necessitate making at least 3 versions of tie rod hole with 2 variants of pin size. We simply include a tie rods that have stronger large diameter tie rod mount studs and are compatible with the spindle and tie rod adjuster sleeves. For most of the 65-73 applications, this tie rod is identical to the 75-80 Granada OE spec piece. I would wager that a prospective user would prefer to use the new stronger piece in place of the car's 20+ year old tie rod.

We prefer to concentrate our resources on developing high value products with wide appeal. Later this year, we will be offering a 70-73 type drum spindle with 6 cylinder 65-66, 8 cylinder 65-66, and 67-73 correct steering geometry. This spindle line will serve as a universal platform that will safely accept both 11" and 13" brake formats.

I hope that the OP has found our OT banter useful, or at least amusing.

degins said:

We prefer to concentrate our resources on developing high value products with wide appeal. Later this year, we will be offering a 70-73 type drum spindle with 6 cylinder 65-66, 8 cylinder 65-66, and 67-73 correct steering geometry. This spindle line will serve as a universal platform that will safely accept both 11" and 13" brake formats.

I hope that the OP has found our OT banter useful, or at least amusing.

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Interesting. I've read there was a service replacement 65-66 V8 spindle in the larger size, but I've never seen one.

Well, let's hope for amusing. We've wandered pretty far off the topic.

degins said:

-The swap uses Granada spec outer tie rods. Replacement Granada outer tie rods cost about 12 ea.

-The swap does not require a special tie rod on PS 68-73. It uses the same Granada type.

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Wait.....so the original outer rod ends on, say, a '68 with power steering will fit the Granada spindles?

No, the Mustang Tie rods will not fit the Granada Spindles.

Dan @

ChockoStang

65ShelbyClone said:

Wait.....so the original outer rod ends on, say, a '68 with power steering will fit the Granada spindles?

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No, the Granada spindle with Granada tie rods will fit a power steer 68-73. 68-73 did not use special power steer tie rods.

2+2GT said:

Interesting. I've read there was a service replacement 65-66 V8 spindle in the larger size, but I've never seen one.

Well, let's hope for amusing. We've wandered pretty far off the topic.

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I believe that the large pin 1970 (D0) type spindle was offer as a service replacement.

degins said:

No, the Granada spindle with Granada tie rods will fit a power steer 68-73. 68-73 did not use special power steer tie rods.

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That's what I thought.

There is a unique Granada swap outer tie rod end, for 64-66 with power steering. The original setup requires an offset tie rod on the LH side, and of course the pin on the stock LH OTR is much too small, so a unique "Granada spindle left outer tie rod end for 64-66 Mustang V8" is available.

2+2GT said:

There is a unique Granada swap outer tie rod end, for 64-66 with power steering. The original setup requires an offset tie rod on the LH side, and of course the pin on the stock LH OTR is much too small, so a unique "Granada spindle left outer tie rod end for 64-66 Mustang V8" is available.

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Sure hope folks are reading into your insight, which is Dead on correct.

Dan @

Chockostang