Dropping "Cobra" could be a good thing

LZR RED COBRA · Feb 9, 2004

i know i agree. last year in october i went to a dealership that had a 03 cobra on the lot that was just collecting dust. i asked for one simple thing, and that was that they pay off my 01 cobra and i would drive away in the 03. they would not budge. only offer me $21k on my cobra, owed 22k. haggled as long as i could, then the clown comes out with some $900 payment, oh man i laughed at him, i walked

the funny part is that the cobra is still on that lot waiting to be sold, sad.

bigred0383 · Feb 10, 2004

Just as long as they don't go the same route as the other Ford cars...meaning that from now on performance versions of certain models will be called the "ST." The very first to have this is the new Focus (since they are dropping the SVT version). And as the new cars come out (500 Hundred, Freestlye, Futura) they are supposed to get the same badging, "ST," for their highest performing variants. But I don't think that would be distinctive enough for the Mustang, or their owners. So even if the Cobra name goes, let's see something good and unique take its place. Just my .02

Snake03 · Feb 10, 2004

lowside21 said:
If thats true would you buy one named "shi+"! Just kidding , I think and agree with some of the above , that if ford builds the shelby cobra ,they need to drop the mustang cobra. To confusing. I would like to see a Mach 1 being like the origanals built as a drag pack car, or more straight line performance and maybe a boss that is for scca type racing.

Here's what I think is gonna happen:

1. Ford will build the new Shelby Cobra. I'm basing that on what I've read about the degree to which the concept was finished out, the sharing of many parts with the Ford GT. I don't think this was meant to be a one-off concept car.

2. The SVT group will loose the "Cobra" name. I don't think that Ford wants to confuse everyone (as someone else mentioned) with two different Cobras.

3. SVT will offer two versions of the Mustang. A GT 350 with a tweaked version of the current 4.6, producing ~425HP, probably as on '06. In late '06, or more likely early '07 they'll offer a GT 500 with a version of the 5.4 blown moter from the Ford GT, ~500HP. Or.....they may do both at the same time so those who buy a 350 aren't PO'd when a more powerfull 500 is available 9-12 months later.

The Shelby Cobra will probably be priced in the Viper range. The GT350 will be about the same price as the current SVT Cobra, and will run with a standard C6. The Gt500 will be north of that, but no so much as to make it totally out of line for us average Joe's, and it will be aimed at the new Z06.

The names may be different than that, but they'll be heritage names of some sort....Mach, Boss, who knows.

I met Colleti last June in Dearborn, and spoke with him for about 20 minutes in the SVT parking area during the Ford Centennial. He drives an '03 Cobra convertable which was parked with the rest of us, name tag/plackard and all. He obviously loves high performance cars, and I don't think he's gonna want a new C6 to pull up to him at a stoplight knowing it will take him.

Aint if fun to dream?

By the way, while I was there, in one 20 minute span I got both Carroll Shelby's and John Colleti's autograph on a light tan SVT Cobra ball cap. I take it to car shows, but watch it like a hawk I also got Colleti's dated signature on the top radiator shroud on my Cobra. Some guys were having him sign on the dash, but that was just a bit much for me.

This horsepower war with the Big Three is a great thing for car guys, especially those of us who grew up in the '60s muscle car era. I think it rivals, if not exceeds what was going on back then. In 1968 I would have laughed in your face if you told me that one day I'd be driving a showroom stock Mustang, with full ammenities....leather, air, CD changer and such that would run in the high 12's at 105+, and still make 20 mpg. Life is good.

XtorT'r · Feb 10, 2004

I don't know if I would beleive that Ford is going to make the Shelby Cobra. that would Directly compete against the GT. That is just not a good idea, both those cars are seeking almost identical audiences. And Personally the concept Shelby Cobra just doesn't look right to me, yet. If...If I had the money to spend on a car in that class I wouldn't even think about the Shelby Cobra, I love the old ones too much. And driving a Ferrari Killer would be too cool.

I do have to say that if Ford wants a sports car to be directly rival to the Corvette It should be on a different frame and not carry the Ford name plate,
Lincoln would be better and they need the buisness. It doesn't matter if it has the Shelby name plate or not, Chrysler did a good job of ruining that (for me at least).

shatner saves · Feb 10, 2004

XtorT'r said:
I don't know if I would beleive that Ford is going to make the Shelby Cobra. that would Directly compete against the GT. That is just not a good idea, both those cars are seeking almost identical audiences. And Personally the concept Shelby Cobra just doesn't look right to me, yet. If...If I had the money to spend on a car in that class I wouldn't even think about the Shelby Cobra, I love the old ones too much. And driving a Ferrari Killer would be too cool.

A Ford person (I can't remember who, I think the guy heading up the cobra project) suggested that the cobra would come after the GT. Production of the GT is only planned for about 3 years or so and the cobra would be a natural fit, as they would have the capapability to do it and the cobra would use a lot of components from the production GT.

I really hope they do the V10 engine in that car. The projected power output is considerably higher than the supercharged 5.4l engine and I can't see how they can fit the blower under that hood without doing some kind of massive power bulge or something.

mp67 · Feb 10, 2004

I think what most mags have been calling the concept is the Shelby roadster. If you take the name cobra away from the svt group, and only build the shelby for a few years, what do you do with the name cobra after that? Give it back to svt? That would be kinda dumb. And they will only build the shelby for a few years if they build it cause first it is going to cost an arm and a leg(I'm guess sticker would be well over corvette sticker if not closer to viper sticker. And two, ol shelby is 81 years old a came back to Ford to finish his career. He'll either retire or die, and I can't see Ford continuing making a Shelby without him.

351CJ · Feb 10, 2004

mp67 said:
If you take the name cobra away from the svt group, and only build the shelby for a few years, what do you do with the name cobra after that?

You put the Cobra name away in a storage closet until there is a new car that is worthy of its name.

kirkyg · Feb 10, 2004

Ron Jeremy said:
I don't really care if they call the Mustang a Boss, a Cobra, a Shelby or an SVT. All that I care for is that it looks good and is fast and that it costs under $35,000. Anything over $32,000 to $35,000 for one of these cars is too much money. Plain and simple. If I want to spend over $35,000 for a car like this, I would go out and buy something else that's more exotic other than a Mustang.

And get it thru your heads. The Mustang is NOT in competition with the Corvette. The Corvette is in another stupid and overpriced car class by itself. If the Mustang ends up like the Corvette only the rich will be buying them. Regular folks who want one will not be able to afford one. And that will not be good. I'm sure that you don't want to see the Cobra or SVT or whatever you want to call this Mustang become unaffordable. Because if you do you must be very rich or just plain stupid.

hahahah...the next SVT mustang is going to be atleast 38k or more. they are going upscale with it remember. That typically means more luxury and comfort which means more cost. You can forget getting a cobra for 30-31k driveout like you can now.

kirkyg

351CJ · Feb 10, 2004

I've said this several times, but you guys just don't want to buy into it.

As kirkyg said the next SVT model (whatever it is called) is going up scale and will probably cost $38K or more for a coupe. It will have performance FAR greater than the 2003 - 04 SVT Mustang Cobra.

However, there will be a model in between the GT and the SVT that will have performance similar to the 03-04 SVT for about the same price.

I do not see any issue here.

TR03Mach1 · Feb 10, 2004

XtorT'r said:
I don't know if I would beleive that Ford is going to make the Shelby Cobra. that would Directly compete against the GT. That is just not a good idea, both those cars are seeking almost identical audiences. And Personally the concept Shelby Cobra just doesn't look right to me, yet. If...If I had the money to spend on a car in that class I wouldn't even think about the Shelby Cobra, I love the old ones too much. And driving a Ferrari Killer would be too cool.

Where'd you come up with idea that the Shelby Cobra would compete against the Ford GT? The GT is only scheduled for a short production run, after that is when the Shelby would be produced. If you watched the premier of the "Rides" program where they detailed the production of "Project Daisy", a production version of the Shelby Cobra roadster would cost in the $69k range, which is far short of the $150k the Ford GT is going to sell for! Sounds more like Corvette and Viper territory to me. I'm also not sure I'd use the term "concept" for the Shelby Cobra, that's a fully functional prototype capable of 100+ mph.

MustangMuscleV8 · Feb 10, 2004

so they are going to put the shelby into production

XtorT'r · Feb 11, 2004

TR03Mach1 said:
Where'd you come up with idea that the Shelby Cobra would compete against the Ford GT? The GT is only scheduled for a short production run, after that is when the Shelby would be produced. If you watched the premier of the "Rides" program where they detailed the production of "Project Daisy", a production version of the Shelby Cobra roadster would cost in the $69k range, which is far short of the $150k the Ford GT is going to sell for! Sounds more like Corvette and Viper territory to me. I'm also not sure I'd use the term "concept" for the Shelby Cobra, that's a fully functional prototype capable of 100+ mph.

Don't kid yourself most people that can afford to pay $69K can afford $150k, if they are gonna pay that for a sportscar. Same type of people that sell the Viper to buy a 911. Keep in mind it's not just the initial price it's also the Insurance. A Corvette can be purchased for $43k - $52k not $69k, you have to get a lingerfelter to be in that price range.

Also, Keep in mind that this is Ford not Lamborghini. There isn't a huge market for American supercars to be supporting two cars like that in the Ford lineup. At least not at this time. I have a feeling that if ford makes both they will take almost a total loss on one of the Projects.

Keep in mind that the car is a Concept. The speed it achieves has nothing to do with it.

shatner saves · Feb 11, 2004

XtorT'r said:
Don't kid yourself most people that can afford to pay $69K can afford $150k, if they are gonna pay that for a sportscar. Same type of people that sell the Viper to buy a 911. Keep in mind it's not just the initial price it's also the Insurance. A Corvette can be purchased for $43k - $52k not $69k, you have to get a lingerfelter to be in that price range.

Also, Keep in mind that this is Ford not Lamborghini. There isn't a huge market for American supercars to be supporting two cars like that in the Ford lineup. At least not at this time. I have a feeling that if ford makes both they will take almost a total loss on one of the Projects.

Keep in mind that the car is a Concept. The speed it achieves has nothing to do with it.

I would imagine, considering how much ford undercut ferrari and lamborgini on the pricing on the GT, that they aren't making much money on that car. It's an image car that has the side benfit of developing some new chassis and manufacturing technology. In the Ford scale of things, the money and resources involved in building that car are minimal.

It might also be something to help attract people to the dealerships just to see one. And if people happen to glance at other cars while there, even better. Look at the attention it's getting at the auto shows. That kind of advertizing is worth the investment.

GTPlus · Feb 11, 2004

351CJ said:
If I were running Ford, I'd announce today that after 2004 there would not be any more SVT Mustang-Cobras for at least the 2005 model year

They did, there wont be a Mustang Cobra until 2006.

It will still be the SVT Mustang Cobra.

The AC Cobra and the Mustang Shelby Cobra co-existed in the 60's why can't they now?

Snake03 · Feb 11, 2004

351CJ said:
As kirkyg said the next SVT model (whatever it is called) is going up scale and will probably cost $38K or more for a coupe. It will have performance FAR greater than the 2003 - 04 SVT Mustang Cobra.

However, there will be a model in between the GT and the SVT that will have performance similar to the 03-04 SVT for about the same price.

I do not see any issue here.

I don't either. Like I said.....A GT350 at about the same price as the current Cobra, with power bumped to run with a standard C6. A GT500, upscale, with significantly more power, to run with the new Z06.

You put a tweaked 03/04 Cobra engine in the 350, and the 5.4 liter out of the Ford GT in the 500.

And I agree with the other user about the Shelby Cobra. If produced it will come in at near Viper price, well below the GT.

The new Ford GT has to be about the sweetest thing I've seen in a long time. If I was single I'd sell the house, move into an apartment and abuy one. Can you imagine the reaction pulling into a local cruise-in in one of them?

XtorT'r · Feb 11, 2004

shatner saves said:
I would imagine, considering how much ford undercut ferrari and lamborgini on the pricing on the GT, that they aren't making much money on that car. It's an image car that has the side benfit of developing some new chassis and manufacturing technology. In the Ford scale of things, the money and resources involved in building that car are minimal.

It might also be something to help attract people to the dealerships just to see one. And if people happen to glance at other cars while there, even better. Look at the attention it's getting at the auto shows. That kind of advertizing is worth the investment.

I agree, I think once Ford establishes its self in that car market then they should put out another i.e. Shelby Cobra, GT90 (yeah I am dreaming).
And the fact that Ford has the ability to mass produce many parts that lambo, and Ferrari can't will make it easy for ford to make profit. Not to mention the fact that some exhotic car buyers will run to an American super car . Once that happens others will follow. Just imagine If they ever offered that engine in Crate.

spanky442 · Feb 12, 2004

They should make a Mustang SS. Super Snake! A slap in Chevy's face.

351CJ · Feb 12, 2004

GTPlus said:
They did, there wont be a Mustang Cobra until 2006.

It will still be the SVT Mustang Cobra.

The AC Cobra and the Mustang Shelby Cobra co-existed in the 60's why can't they now?

In AC Cobra and the Mustang Shelby Cobra NEVER co-existed.

In 1965 the official name was "Mustang GT-350"

In 1966 the name was changed to "Shelby GT-350"
Some people called them "Shelby Mustang, Shelby Mustang GT-350", etc, but that was not their official name.

In 1967 they were called "Shelby GT" or the specific models were
Shelby GT-350 & Shelby GT-500"

1968 AFTER production Shelby Cobra 427 ENDED (2 seater), the names changed again to "Shelby Cobra GT-350 & Shelby Cobra GT-500"

1969 the names changed again because Ford owned the "Cobra" name. So for 1969 & 1970 they again Became Shelby GT's.

If you dont' belive me, feel free to contact the Shelby American Automobile Club. They will tell you the same thing.

spanky442 · Feb 12, 2004

351CJ said:
In AC Cobra and the Mustang Shelby Cobra NEVER co-existed.

In 1965 the official name was "Mustang GT-350"

In 1966 the name was changed to "Shelby GT-350"
Some people called them "Shelby Mustang, Shelby Mustang GT-350", etc, but that was not their official name.

In 1967 they were called "Shelby GT" or the specific models were
Shelby GT-350 & Shelby GT-500"

1968 AFTER production Shelby Cobra 427 ENDED (2 seater), the names changed again to "Shelby Cobra GT-350 & Shelby Cobra GT-500"

1969 the names changed again because Ford owned the "Cobra" name. So for 1969 & 1970 they again Became Shelby GT's.

If you dont' belive me, feel free to contact the Shelby American Automobile Club. They will tell you the same thing.

Interesting!

GTPlus · Feb 12, 2004

351CJ said:
In AC Cobra and the Mustang Shelby Cobra NEVER co-existed.

In 1965 the official name was "Mustang GT-350"

In 1966 the name was changed to "Shelby GT-350"
Some people called them "Shelby Mustang, Shelby Mustang GT-350", etc, but that was not their official name.

In 1967 they were called "Shelby GT" or the specific models were
Shelby GT-350 & Shelby GT-500"

1968 AFTER production Shelby Cobra 427 ENDED (2 seater), the names changed again to "Shelby Cobra GT-350 & Shelby Cobra GT-500"

1969 the names changed again because Ford owned the "Cobra" name. So for 1969 & 1970 they again Became Shelby GT's.

If you dont' belive me, feel free to contact the Shelby American Automobile Club. They will tell you the same thing.

Technically the marketing for the Shelby's did not call them "Cobras" but the logo and name were on the cars and engine. 67 it was even on the grill.

The ironic thing is back then in made sense to put some "Cobra" in to a Mustang. They're doing the complete opposite now.

Dropping "Cobra" could be a good thing

LZR RED COBRA

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