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Dyno tune AFR from tailpipe on catted car?

  • Thread starter Thread starter trinity_gt
  • Start date Start date Apr 15, 2007

trinity_gt

10 Year Member
Jan 31, 2003
3,125
81
99
Canada
Apr 15, 2007
#1
  • Apr 15, 2007
  • #1
At a recent dyno session I went to I noticed the exhaust sniffer for AFR monitoring was placed into the tailpipe of a car with catalytic converters. This got me thinking...

How valid a reading can one get from this? Modern three-way catalysts convert HCs into water and CO2...what is the sniffer actually measuring? HCs? When you go WOT, the cats would be "overwhelmed" but will still convert at least a portion of the HCs, right? So if the tuner plays with the fuel deliver to get 13:1 at the tailpipe, doesn't that imply the engine is richer still since the cats have scrubbed the exhaust some?

Is the best option a bung welded into the downpipe before the cat with a wideband sensor?
 

04DarkShadowGT

Member
Jan 31, 2004
474
0
17
Fort Wayne, IN
Apr 15, 2007
#2
  • Apr 15, 2007
  • #2
Its definatly better to get the readings in front of the cats. I got my car dynoed at the tail pipe as well before I got my wideband.

The dyno guy said it was usually a half a point off at the tail pipe if you have cats.
 

Don 95Vert

Founding Member
Oct 1, 1999
1,091
1
39
Delaware, OH
Apr 15, 2007
#3
  • Apr 15, 2007
  • #3
There are two problems with that. First, cats hold and release 02 and usually release it at WOT, so the readings will be false lean. It is a bit safer, but not accurate. Second, there is a pretty decent delay in the readings and what's happeneing in the engine. It could take like 1/2 second for the gases to get to the tailpipe and into the wideband, which is fairly significant. A welded bung before the cats is the best choice followed by using a rear 02 sensor bung - doing the latter eliminates the delay but still is after the cats.
Don
 
2

2002BLGT

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2003
2,945
4
59
Bedford VA
Apr 15, 2007
#4
  • Apr 15, 2007
  • #4
get a bung welded in before the cats if at all possible
 

the98stang

Active Member
Aug 12, 2005
2,408
0
47
Clovis, CA
Apr 15, 2007
#5
  • Apr 15, 2007
  • #5
Steve at Powertrain Dynamics tunes that way. He said the difference is minimal, and it's easier to check the readings that way. Worse comes to worse, the car is tuned to run a little more rich because the readings are lean. I'd rather sacrafice some HP than blow my engine from a lean condition. Just my .02
 
0

01Steeda

New Member
May 29, 2005
732
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0
Baton Rouge, LA
Apr 15, 2007
#6
  • Apr 15, 2007
  • #6
the98stang said:
I'd rather sacrafice some HP than blow my engine from a lean condition. Just my .02
Click to expand...

I agree, but where would the lean condition be coming from... if he welds a bung in before the cats and the tune is done properly there is no lean condition.
 
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