E10 and possibly E15 this summer?

tca7291 · Feb 9, 2012

My 2.3 already hates this E10 gas, and now the EPA is pushing for E15 this summer? Does anybody have any cheap suggestions to get her to run better (richer) without reprogramming the ECM? I know I'm not the only one suffering...

65ShelbyClone · Feb 23, 2012

Buy gas from stations that sell it without ethanol if you can. Using an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to raise the base pressure slightly may compensate. I don't know why your car would be so sensitive to the current E10. I don't like it, but neither of my pre-ethanol EFI vehicles have a problem, one of them being the SVO. There might be something else going on.

tca7291 · Mar 2, 2012

Yeah, I realized that several stations around me have straight gas on the 93 octane level, I've just been running that lately and it has improved dramatically. As far as something else, it could be, I'm running a stock 2.3 with 200k+ miles on it (don't know for sure after the 140 mph speedo swap). I know she is tired, I knew the previous owners and they didn't take very good care of her. I got all new ignition parts, new fuel pump, no vacuum leaks, it just seems to not like the E10 at all, but I also know that she is tired...

Stanger93Curt · Mar 2, 2012

My car started spuddering after putting in gas. It seems like the spark plugs but then I read this thread and it made me think that maybe it was the gas. I just use premium (which is killer with raising gas prices) and my car has been running pretty good. I know I need to do the spark plugs as well, but with the higher octane I have not had any studdering or hesitation. Maybe this could work for you.

Noobz347 · Mar 2, 2012

tca7291 said:
My 2.3 already hates this E10 gas, and now the EPA is pushing for E15 this summer? Does anybody have any cheap suggestions to get her to run better (richer) without reprogramming the ECM? I know I'm not the only one suffering...

I would say that there's something already wrong with your car. Perhaps the O2 sensors are bad?

Running E10 fuel is within OBD1s ability to compensate. The only difference you should really notice is crappy fuel mileage.

Perhaps your fuel filter is dirty/clogged from some bad gas someplace and is not allowing adequate fuel.

Either way, my suggestion here is that something is not right the car.

tca7291 · Mar 2, 2012

Thanks guys, and Noobz, it has been running a lot better on premium, but I really didn't think about the O2. I have to replace some exhaust components this spring (leak in the muffler), so I'll go ahead and do the O2 when I do my exhaust system. P.S. love the flying dog!

65ShelbyClone · Mar 2, 2012

What year is your car? Is it a dual plug 2.3? At least put the year in your signature so we don't have to guess.

My experience with non-distributor 2.3s is limited at best, so I'll just tell a story. I did some work on a 2000 Mazda B2500(2.5L dual plug Lima) that was pinging badly on regular fuel. It was designed for regular fuel so it definitely shouldn't have been doing that. The owner replaced the fuel filter and injectors with no change. The timing set was overdue, so I replaced that and the pinging immediately went away and power improved as a result.

tca7291 · Mar 2, 2012

Sorry about that, she is a '91 dual-plug. I did the timing set about 5 years ago, and have put maybe 25k-30k on her sense. Timing belt still looks good, and on regular gas she pings at anything above probably 3/8 to 1/2 throttle, surges at idle when cold, and hesitates at start off (letting clutch out in first gear off of idle) when warm or cold. New fuel pump about 4 years ago, 2 new coil packs, wires, plugs, and ICM last summer (was having the 1/2 tach display issue). Not sure if it could be related, but she tends to run worse when it is cold outside (less then ~45-50 degrees). Thanks again for all your help guys!

65ShelbyClone · Mar 2, 2012

It definitely has some other problems going on. Any codes?

79'293stang · Mar 2, 2012

Could be your egr is acting all crazy, if it sticks closed when it should be open the computer will compensate by leaning out in expectation for the exhaust gases which do not arrive, causing pinging/lean situation. I run E10 in all of my vehicles, most of the gas besides 87 is all e10 even for premium at several stations. Have no issues with either of my boosted cars.

tca7291 · Mar 2, 2012

Last time I checked for codes was a while ago, after these problems started showing, and there wasn't any, but I will recheck tomorrow morning. Thanks again everybody!

tca7291 · Mar 3, 2012

Ok, pulled the codes in KOEO and got code 11 (system pass), and code 22 (map/bp sensor out of self test range) from continuous memory. Ok, so, given this car uses a maf instead of a map, where the heck is there a barometric pressure sensor, or is something else?

tca7291 · Mar 3, 2012

Oh yeah, never had the mil come on while driving. Thanks again!

Noobz347 · Mar 3, 2012

If the map/baro sensor is not working then that could explain the symptoms you are having. When u switch on the ignition, the eec takes a reading of ambiant air pressure to determine altitude and select the correct air/fuel profile for the car. Without it, it is guessing and likely running a rich open loop fuel table.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC

65ShelbyClone · Mar 3, 2012

tca7291 said:
Ok, pulled the codes in KOEO and got code 11 (system pass), and code 22 (map/bp sensor out of self test range) from continuous memory. Ok, so, given this car uses a maf instead of a map, where the heck is there a barometric pressure sensor, or is something else?

Do you have a service manual?

I think the 5.0s have it mounted somewhere around the passenger firewall or fenderwell. Don't quote me; it's been a while since I owned one. In the case of a 2.3, I don't know.

One of several very useful diagnostic modes Ford implemented is called the "wiggle test." It watches all the sensors for feedback and trips if something faults while you're under the hood wiggling connections(or driving in the case of a KOER wiggle test). I think it would be worth doing all of the ECU-based tests in the interest of being thorough. It's easier than turning wrenches and far cheaper than blindly replacing parts as so many people do.

http://www.atraonline.com/manuals/general/tetdv/tetdv-c4b.htm

tca7291 · Mar 3, 2012

Alright, it's on the firewall near the vacuum tree, I tried the "wiggle test" and also cleared the code from memory, but after a short test drive, the code 22 reappeared. I then unplugged the bp sensor and forced it into open loop which tripped the mil light on, and it smoothed out. Running rich, but the majority of symptoms have gone away. I assume that the sensor is telling my computer the wrong information, causing a change in the fuel curve just like Noobz said. I guess it's time for a trip to O'Rileys!! Thank all of you so much for your input and help! After I get the new sensor and reset the computer, and drive for a few days I will let you all know whats going on! Thanks again!

65ShelbyClone · Mar 3, 2012

Do you know off hand what kind of signal the BAP generates? I don't recall if it's 0-5v or a varying frequency like the MAF. If it's a simple 0-5v, then it would be possible to use a resistor to temporarily simulate a functioning BAP at a fixed pressure value...

tca7291 · Mar 3, 2012

It's a varying frequency sensor. I found this page to be very informative. http://www.oldfuelinjection.com/?p=32

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