EGR Delete ?
- Thread starter superstang79
- Start date
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
Not sure what you meant by the piece of soda can - but anything in the middle of the intake interface that's thicker than the rest of the gasket (a piece of soda can) has the potential not only to create a vacuum leak, but also overstress or crack/break the upper when you tighten it down. I would not do that. I'd tap threads into the upper egr hole, and screw a plug into it such that the plug doesn't interfere with the mating surface (deeper than flush). But, if you blocked off the egr holes in your heads, why block off the hole in the upper/lower? No exhaust gas can reach it anyway. Unless you're talking about blocking off the air injection holes in the back of the heads. If that's what you meant, those holes are different than the egr holes - the egr system and the air injection system are two different systems.
Michael Yount said:
I did think about the soda can creating leaks/crack. I thought about tapping the intake or my phonelic spacer (prob. go for the intake) but have to find the right drill/tap.
i did block off the holes in the back of my heads, those are the air injection holes right? the smog bumps in my heads are not plugged if thats what you are talking about. (is that even possible?)
in other words, i still have to block off the hole that is circled in this picture? is there a gasket out there that would block this off?
Thanks for the help. -a
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bock
Founding Member
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
Bock's got an answer for you - and yes, the hole circled is the one to block if you're trying to prevent exhaust gas from reaching the upper intake.
Michael Yount said:
thats strange.. my phonelic spacer does have the hole. anyway, now im thinking about counterboring a place for a washer to block it off, but still not really sure if i even need to. i have the egr spacer blocked off where the egr valve used to be, and both holes in the backs of the heads are welded shut so, i guess there really isnt a need to block it off on the intake. Right?? Thanks...-a
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
You could tap and plug the hole in the spacer; also, the holes in the back of the heads have nothing to do with egr -- that's what I was trying to convey in the first post.
bock
Founding Member
For the phenolic spacer,if we talk about the gt-40 intake,i had 2 parts #,with and with out the hole.
FelPro 1250 intake gaskets have a plug or an open plug to use to block off the EGR hole. This would help keep intake temps lower.
Legendary
Founding Member
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
The computer closes the egr valve during wide open throttle and idle. So there is not exhaust gas recirculation at idle or wide open throttle. At part throttle, the small amount of exhaust gas admitted to the intake stream cools the combustion chamber reducing the formation of NOx, and it allows the computer to add more timing (without detonation) causing better fuel mileage. Many people believe that the intake charge will be a bit cooler if exhaust doesn't have access to the internal intake passages allowing for more (marginally) power at w.o.t. Folks also don't like the clutter from the egr valve. Those are the pros and cons as I see it.
Legendary
Founding Member
Well since you never drive around at either idle or wide open throttle and the intake isn't going to cool of in the time it takes for you to mash the gas. So in my opinion it isn't something I want on my ride. I am actually having problems with mine right now... Am I gonna fix it? HELL NO off it comes. Besides less crap = less problems 
. The evil way it cools the combustion chamber by replacing air with virtually unburnable exhaust gases isn't something I much care for. More air and less exhaust = more power at any throttle besides when I deleted my egr before I had to use less throttle to maintain speed. I didn't notice any apreciable difference in fuel economy though. Meh 6 one way 1/2 dozen the other I guess.
. The evil way it cools the combustion chamber by replacing air with virtually unburnable exhaust gases isn't something I much care for. More air and less exhaust = more power at any throttle besides when I deleted my egr before I had to use less throttle to maintain speed. I didn't notice any apreciable difference in fuel economy though. Meh 6 one way 1/2 dozen the other I guess.
Legendary
Founding Member
90mustangGT said:
I agree with this, but hate to go against what Michael Yount says. Maybe I will block off my EGR for a tank and see if MPG is affected. Sound like a good plan? I will do it scientifically, make the same run on the same interstate at the same speed. I have been trying to research the EGR delete option, because I have a tmoss lower sitting on a shelf now. I have been pondering blocking off the ports in the head below the lower. What is the best way to do this, should I decide on it? I have read the soda can pieces work, I wont put those in. Thin aluminum doesnt take well to heat. I have used a torch to turn a Mt. Dew can into a puddle in just seconds. Over time, they have to break down from the exhaust gases. Plus this thing is backing up exhaust when its not working, correct? And the more of its tract you block off the smaller the chamber of backed up exhaust. Mr. Yount, let me know if I am backed up with BS, but I never liked the thought of an EGR, I have seen them cause more probs than anything. And when I removed the rest of my emissions system, MPG went up dramatically. I wish I could ask Charles Probst that question, I am sure he would weasel out of it though.
bock
Founding Member
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
Guys - it all varies car to car. It's pretty unpredictable what's gonna happen when you take it off. Some folks get a check engine light because the egr valve position sensor isn't getting the reading the computer expects. Some folks experience some detonation at part throttle because the computer sets fuel mixture/timing expecting part of the air in the cylinder to be displaced by A VERY SMALL amount of exhaust gas. If you block the egr, this exhaust gas is displaced by air, and now the mixture is leaner than it otherwise would be --- leaner mixture + more timing = detonation, sometimes. With the O2 sensors, the computer should adjust the lean situation. But it's going to tables to determine what it does to timing, and it won't/can't change what it does to timing unless you use a chip to turn off the egr function in the ecu. Some folks disconnect it and get rid of it just to clean up the clutter and never notice any difference at all, except it looks cleaner under the hood. As for comparing gas mileage before and after - even that may vary car to car. It's one thing talking about it's function when the car was brand new - my comments up above in the previous post. It's entirely another talking about it's function on cars that are 10-15 years old with, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of miles on them, and many times, lots of mods. A lot of the egr valves out there are probably pretty coked up and aren't even functioning optimally - so removing it, seeing it drives better or worse, and concluding that the egr design was to blame/gets credit to start with just doesn't necessarily add up.
So, each person has to decide - take it off or not and see what happens in your case. Some people block it off, but leave the valve in the car hooked up so that it won't set off the check engine light. Some people try unplugging the sensor first to see if it sets off the check engine light. Some people remove the whole thing and say screw it, whatever happens happens. Some people experience part throttle detonation, some don't. Some people buy the Ron Morris 'fooler' plug(www.ronmorrisperformance.com) to solve the check engine light, and take it all off. Some people block off at the heads, some the upper/lower interface, some just block the valve opening in the upper. That's all based on posts I've read over time. Personally, I didn't want the clutter in the compartment, so I took mine off (my Explorer intake doesn't have provisions for it anyway - that's what sparked my decision) and we turned off the egr function in the ecu with the chip to prevent error codes, check engine lights (I don't have a CEL anyway) or any drivability issues. I did it with my performance upgrades -- so many things were changed I couldn't begin to tell you what impact if any for better or worse removing the egr had. I can tell you the top of the engine is less cluttered - which is all I set out to accomplish with the removal.
So, each person has to decide - take it off or not and see what happens in your case. Some people block it off, but leave the valve in the car hooked up so that it won't set off the check engine light. Some people try unplugging the sensor first to see if it sets off the check engine light. Some people remove the whole thing and say screw it, whatever happens happens. Some people experience part throttle detonation, some don't. Some people buy the Ron Morris 'fooler' plug(www.ronmorrisperformance.com) to solve the check engine light, and take it all off. Some people block off at the heads, some the upper/lower interface, some just block the valve opening in the upper. That's all based on posts I've read over time. Personally, I didn't want the clutter in the compartment, so I took mine off (my Explorer intake doesn't have provisions for it anyway - that's what sparked my decision) and we turned off the egr function in the ecu with the chip to prevent error codes, check engine lights (I don't have a CEL anyway) or any drivability issues. I did it with my performance upgrades -- so many things were changed I couldn't begin to tell you what impact if any for better or worse removing the egr had. I can tell you the top of the engine is less cluttered - which is all I set out to accomplish with the removal.
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