Electricly dead motor?

mhanksii · Apr 20, 2008

Ok so here is the deal. I have a MagnaCharger on my 05 GT and during the install I toasted a 15A fuse. It is labeled Engine #2 and that's it in the owners manual. I cleaned up the power distribution block with a Dremal and put in a new fuse and the car ran fine with some Steeda UD Pullies. I pulled the UD's off yesterday to turn the boost up and now I have some real issues. They are:
1. anytime you turn the parking lights on the engine dies and the fog light indicater comes on also
2. when the engine comes up to temp and the relay trys to kick the fan on, the engine dies
3. the lights don't turn on, the relays kick and you can hear them but no head lights, fog lights, or parking lights. (After about 20 times cycling the light switch I did get the lights to come on and work right but the engine wasn't running and they haven't worked since.)

When the engine is cold and the lights are off the car runs strong and doesn't miss a beat. Anyone have any ideas or thoughts? I have already switched out all the relays with known goods and the car acts the same. Please help!

The Fang · Apr 20, 2008

thats scary

I cleaned up the power distribution block with a Dremal

What do you mean by this?

anthony05gt · Apr 20, 2008

Go back over all steps on the install that had anything to do with the electrical system. Look over the wiring connections involved very carefully. You either crossed up something there or maybe a part of the wiring harness is crushed/pinched by a bolt on component.

mhanksii · Apr 20, 2008

The Fang said:
thats scary

What do you mean by this?

the plastic on top (not the lid but the center section) got hot and some of it melted just a bit. So I smoothed it back out and made a clean seat for the 15A fuse again.

highvolts · Apr 22, 2008

This is the scary part!

mhanksii said:
the plastic on top got hot and some of it melted just a bit.

I hope you figure out your problem. Once you do, be sure to post back what solved it.

-Jason

o0Dan0o · Apr 22, 2008

Like others have said, go through your install and make sure that you have correctly done all the wiring and that there are no shorts. Then I would take the fuse box out and make sure that the fried fuse didn't cause any shorts on the underside of the box.

Also, do you have an appropriate tune for the added boost?
Dan

mhanksii · Apr 22, 2008

o0Dan0o said:
Like others have said, go through your install and make sure that you have correctly done all the wiring and that there are no shorts. Then I would take the fuse box out and make sure that the fried fuse didn't cause any shorts on the underside of the box.

Also, do you have an appropriate tune for the added boost?
Dan

I have been driving with the MagnaCharger for well over a month, the only thing that changed was taking the under-drive pullies off and putting the stock pullies back on. I have checked all the wires and completely dismantled the power distribution box and there is no sign of any damage other than the cosmetic damage to top side of the box around the hot fuse. Even the relays look fine and have been swapped around.

Today I even broke out the multi meter and checked the battery and the alternator, both more than fine and running strong. There is no reason for this problem that I can see, would it be better to take my baby to a dealership or a speed shop?

o0Dan0o · Apr 22, 2008

I doubt it's the under drive pulleys, but you could try putting them back on...

So, no codes are poping? Honestly, I don't know enough about how the car is wired to be of any real help. My next best advice is to get a wiring diagram book and try to track down through the different symptoms where the problem is coming from.
Dan

P.S. Have you tried data logging from the ECU while this happens?

UrbanRedneck · Apr 22, 2008

Something must be shorted somewhere, there is no reason that a blown fuse should melt the fusebox. What did you do during the install that blew the fuse exactly? That would be the FIRST place I'd look. This is why you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO dissconect the battery when you do a major repair!

I;d first go to the point where you blew the fuse, you must have pinched a wire or grounded something, make sure that this junction is ok. Then go over every square inch of the engine near anything you've touched, and look for anything that is out of place, pinched, broken, etc. Then, I'd check that the fuses are all the right size. THEN, if you still haven't found the problem, just for ****'s, I'd disconnect the alternator and start the car. It may be possible that you fried the voltage regulator or something, and the underdrive pulleys "hid" this, but that is a longshot grasping on straws. I may even consider reinstalling your stock tune, just to see if it fixes it, but obviously do NOT drive it like that with the blower.

If you have checked everything at least twice, and STILL cannot find the problem, I would venture a guess that you somehow fried the PCM or BCM. See if you can find a wiring diagram that will tell you just where that fuse's circuit goes to get a better idea. If all else fails, I'd take it to a competant technician. Either a dealer you trust, or a very reputable private shop.

UrbanRedneck · Apr 22, 2008

After reading your post again, your symptoms almost sound like the charging system cannot handle a voltage drop. Put your voltmeter on the battery, and reproduce the problem. See if voltage drops below 12. If so, I'd suspect that either A. the alternator is not connected properly, or B. you fried the alternator/voltage regulator. Also, like I said above, I'd try it with the alternator disconnected or at least the belt removed.

mhanksii · Apr 22, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
After reading your post again, your symptoms almost sound like the charging system cannot handle a voltage drop. Put your voltmeter on the battery, and reproduce the problem. See if voltage drops below 12. If so, I'd suspect that either A. the alternator is not connected properly, or B. you fried the alternator/voltage regulator. Also, like I said above, I'd try it with the alternator disconnected or at least the belt removed.

The fuse melted because I had the inter cooler relay wired wrong, by the way the fuse never blew just melted beyond belief so I changed it, well I had too.

That was my very thought today, I checked the battery first then that alternator with a multimeter. I watched for voltage drop and spikes. The voltage was perfect everywhere 12.5 off, only dropped to 10.7 while cranking the engine, sat rock solid at 14.58 through out the RPM band right after start up. The power distribution block has a good ground and sees the same voltage with not even half a volt drop when any of the relays kick and kill the engine (low speed fan, low beam head lights, high beams, parking lights). The level of work that has been done here goes all the way down to wire loom too, I added a lot to keep that stock look but have pulled it an looked under the loom and found nothing out of the ordinary.

I am so close to just giving up but now I can't decide who to trust my car to a dealership (I don't trust them and we all know they won't touch it for under $1K) or a private speed shop but there them make it known that if they didn't install it they don't want anything to do with it and thus again charge accordingly.

Thank you all for your responses though, please post any ideas I am open to recheck anything.

UrbanRedneck · Apr 22, 2008

hmm so that rules out charging problems.. This is deffinetely going to take some diagnosing. You seem pretty sure that there are no evident problems in the wiring. Given that, I'd wager that the change of pulleys is a coincidence. But it's strange that it ran for a long time just fine.

Try this, remove that fuse and see what happens. The car probably won't start, but just see.

And tell me, how exactly did you have this relay wired, and what was it wired too?

Gimme untill thursday when I get acess to service information, I'll try and find out where that fuse goes and get ahold of something that may help. Hopefully we can figure something out. I know that some of the best techs out there work at dealerships, but there are just as many that don't know what they're doing and we don't want the car to wind up in the hands of a parts changer.

mhanksii · Apr 24, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
hmm so that rules out charging problems.. This is deffinetely going to take some diagnosing. You seem pretty sure that there are no evident problems in the wiring. Given that, I'd wager that the change of pulleys is a coincidence. But it's strange that it ran for a long time just fine.

Try this, remove that fuse and see what happens. The car probably won't start, but just see.

And tell me, how exactly did you have this relay wired, and what was it wired too?

Gimme untill thursday when I get acess to service information, I'll try and find out where that fuse goes and get ahold of something that may help. Hopefully we can figure something out. I know that some of the best techs out there work at dealerships, but there are just as many that don't know what they're doing and we don't want the car to wind up in the hands of a parts changer.

The fuse is labeled Engine #2 and the car does not run without it or even start.

The heat exchanger/intercooler water pump relay was wired backwards so the power distribution block saw a short when I turned the key on and explains all the heat that the fuse saw instantly. The Engine #2 fuse is the switched power supply for the pump.

I know I am scared to take it in to the dealership as they charge $95/hour and said the the typically electrical diagnosis running 3-4 hours and the repair taking another 2-3 hours and parts on top of that!

UrbanRedneck · Apr 24, 2008

I couldn't get a chance to get any information today, but saturday morning I'll see what I can dig up and hopefully we'll figure it out.

UrbanRedneck · Apr 26, 2008

I just remembered something that I totally forgot. I bet that there are melted wires behind the fuse (inside the junction block). If you haven't already checked that, take the block apart (battery disconnected) and see, because 2 circuits could be melted together causing this fault.
I am having trouble finding the info I want in alldata, so I will try and get into Fords tech data to look further, but first check that, becuase I bet that's it.

mhanksii · Apr 27, 2008

UrbanRedneck said:
I just remembered something that I totally forgot. I bet that there are melted wires behind the fuse (inside the junction block). If you haven't already checked that, take the block apart (battery disconnected) and see, because 2 circuits could be melted together causing this fault.
I am having trouble finding the info I want in alldata, so I will try and get into Fords tech data to look further, but first check that, becuase I bet that's it.

Your talking about the power distribution block, if so I completely took it apart (four bolts) and looked it over real close, nothing out to the ordinary there. All the pins on the bottom were straight and no rust or wear marks. Doesn't look like anything got hot down there. Are you talk about something inside that block that the fuses and relays plug into being melted or shorted?

The new development in the case is that I have tail lights. and if I just turn on the parking lights, they magically work now. Still no headlights and if I try to turn the head lights on the front marker light go out?

Also when I hit the horn it works, if I press the panic button on the key fob the tail lights flash and instead of a horn blast there is a very loud clicking sound coming from under the hood.

Last but not least, when I pull the fan relays the car will run well past normal operating temps. However pull the high beam relay and the then hit the high beams and the engine still dies with a loud clicking sound under the hood and no high beams.

I'm lost and Ford from what I read needs some more money, guess I will just have to suck it up. I tried calling JPC Racing a few times but they are to busy to call me back so looks like the Dealership is my only hope.

mhanksii · May 9, 2008

OK so I got my car back on Monday just had not had the time to post anything since then. It was indeed a loose ground wire but before the flaming begins, it did take a Ford Tech (their Mustang GT guy who drives a Procharged 06 himself) a full working day to find himself. He wasn't there for me to ask where it was but my baby is running stronger than ever and wow the torque!

PS I now have in one week one vette, two evo's, and a srt4 neon on my kill sheets. Just because it doesn't rumble folks doesn't mean there isn't something nasty under the hood waiting for you!

highvolts · May 9, 2008

Good deal!!

I hope all those "kills" were on a track!

-Jason

UrbanRedneck · May 9, 2008

Interesting. I'd like to know where that ground was and how it got loose. How much time did they charge you to diagnose it? A full day at $100+ an hour has to hurt...

But, in the technicians defense, stuff like that is REAL hard to find, especially when you have modified the car (once you put aftermarket parts on, everything the tech is used to, all service information, etc. all goes right out the window).

Electricly dead motor?

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