False empty 2011 TSB 10-21-3 recurrence trouble?

phoneman91 · Jan 8, 2011

I just did the first fill up of my gas tank after I saw my gas gauge go from one quarter left to empty in several seconds. I filled the tank and it took only 9.6 gallons!

I found out that there is a Ford TSB on this problem-TSB10-21-3 that was dated 101910 .

My GT was made on 111810-almost a month after the issuance of this TSB. It seems that either Ford built my car with a known defective fuel module/pump FPM or that the replacement FPM fuel module/pumps are defective.

This TSB says to replace the FPM with part number BR3Z-9H307-B .

Has anyone had this FPM replaced for this problem and has the problem recurred?

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/attac...5&d=1287569018

Sparty92 · Jan 9, 2011

I just got my '11 GT a week ago. I filled it up when it got to 1/2 tank, and again at 1/4 tank.

Since I am at 1/2-ish tank today, I will drive it down below 1/4 to see if I have the same problem. I have *heard* of the TSB, but I'm curious to know if it's been fixed on newer cars.

How do I tell when my car was built?

Thanks.

Az Pete · Jan 9, 2011

Lower center of the door jam sticker, last line.....remove the 1, then it is 2010..... That is the day and the month.

Mine is a Jun build and I have no issues with the gas. 1900 miles since the Nov. 29th purchase and I have run down to 10 miles to empty. Also filled just fine.

phoneman91 · Jan 9, 2011

Sparty92 said:
I just got my '11 GT a week ago. I filled it up when it got to 1/2 tank, and again at 1/4 tank.

Since I am at 1/2-ish tank today, I will drive it down below 1/4 to see if I have the same problem. I have *heard* of the TSB, but I'm curious to know if it's been fixed on newer cars.

How do I tell when my car was built?

Thanks.

Have the dealer pull an Oasis report-it will show the month and day of manufacture. And the VIN sticker will show the month of manufacture.As will the sequence number range of the VIN. My sequence number range is 161xxx and was made in November 2010.

And AZ Pete is correct-the day and month is on the center bottom of the VIN sticker. It is a 13 long number sequence. Left to right: 12010mmddxxxx. What follows 12010 is the month and day. In my case it is 120101118-for Nov 18 2010.

Northwind · Jan 13, 2011

Big headache for me

phoneman91 said:
I just did the first fill up of my gas tank after I saw my gas gauge go from one quarter left to empty in several seconds. I filled the tank and it took only 9.6 gallons!

I found out that there is a Ford TSB on this problem-TSB10-21-3 that was dated 101910 .

My GT was made on 111810-almost a month after the issuance of this TSB. It seems that either Ford built my car with a known defective fuel module/pump FPM or that the replacement FPM fuel module/pumps are defective.

This TSB says to replace the FPM with part number BR3Z-9H307-B .

Has anyone had this FPM replaced for this problem and has the problem recurred?

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/attac...5&d=1287569018

I had the problem. Took them 3 tries to fix it (last chance before lemon law, not that I wanted to go that route).

1st try, followed the TSB to the letter, problem gone for 2 tanks of fuel then came back.

2nd try, they replaced the other fuel pump, and some other stuff related to the fuel tank. Dealer said I was good to go, I picked it up with 3/4 of a tank. That night, i filled it up and it showed 2/3 tank when full. Opposite problem.

3rd try, they were baffled. After days of discussion with the factory techs and testing, they replaced the instrument cluster. 3 tanks of fuel later, that seems to be doing the trick.

Funny, the lemon law allows "only" three "repairs" but the 15 times back and forth to the dealer is OK I guess. To say I wasn't happy is putting it mildly. Drop off --> diagnose --> pick up --> order parts --> drop off a week later --> repair --> pick up again; rinse and repeat 3X.

As a warning, it's not just a fuel indication issue! When the gauge drops to zero, you have about 8 miles before the computer packs it in and shuts the car down, even though there is still 6 gallons of fuel in the car. (yeah, I was the looser standing on the side of the interstate with the dead 2 week old car )

But seriously, other than that, the car has been awesome

phoneman91 · Jan 14, 2011

Northwind said:
I had the problem. Took them 3 tries to fix it (last chance before lemon law, not that I wanted to go that route).

1st try, followed the TSB to the letter, problem gone for 2 tanks of fuel then came back.

2nd try, they replaced the other fuel pump, and some other stuff related to the fuel tank. Dealer said I was good to go, I picked it up with 3/4 of a tank. That night, i filled it up and it showed 2/3 tank when full. Opposite problem.

3rd try, they were baffled. After days of discussion with the factory techs and testing, they replaced the instrument cluster. 3 tanks of fuel later, that seems to be doing the trick.

Funny, the lemon law allows "only" three "repairs" but the 15 times back and forth to the dealer is OK I guess. To say I wasn't happy is putting it mildly. Drop off --> diagnose --> pick up --> order parts --> drop off a week later --> repair --> pick up again; rinse and repeat 3X.

As a warning, it's not just a fuel indication issue! When the gauge drops to zero, you have about 8 miles before the computer packs it in and shuts the car down, even though there is still 6 gallons of fuel in the car. (yeah, I was the looser standing on the side of the interstate with the dead 2 week old car )

But seriously, other than that, the car has been awesome

When was your Mustang built? What month and day? Look at the bottom middle of the VIN sticker-there will be a 13 character number-the month and day will be the sixth thur ninth character from the left.

I thought that the Mustang will run out of gas because the drivers side tank is run dry. It is your understanding that the computer actually shuts the car down?

Northwind · Jan 14, 2011

Build date of June 8, 2010.
The first replacement fuel pump module was ordered in December, wasn't sitting on the dealer shelf, took a week top get.

See attached....

phoneman91 · Jan 14, 2011

Northwind said:
Build date of June 8, 2010.
The first replacement fuel pump module was ordered in December, wasn't sitting on the dealer shelf, took a week top get.

See attached....

Interesting to see that you had the same trouble that I am having. How many miles on your car when this first occurred? 100 percent of the time when the tank got down to the last quarter?

Northwind · Jan 14, 2011

@phoneman:

Build date of June 8, 2010

Problem started at about 800 miles.

When I got the car, I ran the tank down to less than 1/8th of a tank in order to get whatever fuel the dealer had filled it with out of there and replace with premium (to maximize horsepower of course ) No problem that time.

Not sure that I ever ran the tank below 1/2 again before 800 miles or so.

EDIT:
Also, when the 3rd problem was happening (showing 2/3 when the tank was full, I could enter engineering test mode on the gauge cluster and read the raw data, one sender would read full (240 on a 256 scale), the other would read about 1/3 (70 on a 256 scale) So either a bad sender, or a bad analog input on the cluster. I never looked at the raw data during the original problem.

kiteboarder · Apr 20, 2011

Hello, this is my first post. I feel the need to revive this thread because I'm having the same problem.

Northwind... Did the problem ever come back? My wife's 2011 V6 stops reading once it gets to a little under half a tank. After a bit, the gauge suddenly shoots to zero. The other day the car shut off and I had to go bring gas to her. I put 1 galon in the tank, and the car started. We though that the gauge stopped reading at half a tank and go stuck, all the while consuming more gas, than suddenly advising it was empty and shutting down. We thought it was empty, but as you guys say, there might well be gas in there still.

BTW, the car is stuck at a 13MPG reading as well.

We done one repair already. To no avail. I'm scheduling the 2nd try very soon.

Northwind · Apr 21, 2011

kiteboarder said:
Hello, this is my first post. I feel the need to revive this thread because I'm having the same problem.

Northwind... Did the problem ever come back? My wife's 2011 V6 stops reading once it gets to a little under half a tank. After a bit, the gauge suddenly shoots to zero. The other day the car shut off and I had to go bring gas to her. I put 1 galon in the tank, and the car started. We though that the gauge stopped reading at half a tank and go stuck, all the while consuming more gas, than suddenly advising it was empty and shutting down. We thought it was empty, but as you guys say, there might well be gas in there still.

BTW, the car is stuck at a 13MPG reading as well.

We done one repair already. To no avail. I'm scheduling the 2nd try very soon.

Hi Kiteboarder....
You are having the exact symptoms I did. The dealer tried replacing the sending units per the TSB (and also other parts in the tank) twice to no avail. They then ended up replacing the gauge cluster and that did the trick. 4K miles since repair and no more problems.

phoneman91 · Apr 21, 2011

kiteboarder said:
Hello, this is my first post. I feel the need to revive this thread because I'm having the same problem.

Northwind... Did the problem ever come back? My wife's 2011 V6 stops reading once it gets to a little under half a tank. After a bit, the gauge suddenly shoots to zero. The other day the car shut off and I had to go bring gas to her. I put 1 galon in the tank, and the car started. We though that the gauge stopped reading at half a tank and go stuck, all the while consuming more gas, than suddenly advising it was empty and shutting down. We thought it was empty, but as you guys say, there might well be gas in there still.

BTW, the car is stuck at a 13MPG reading as well.

We done one repair already. To no avail. I'm scheduling the 2nd try very soon.

What month was your Mustang made? Try to find out if there is a new and revised Fuel Pump yet. Try to get the part number of the new pump if possible.

phoneman91 · Apr 21, 2011

Has anyone had the passenger side fuel intake replaced? And not the driver's side FPM-and had it actually fix the trouble?

I can't believe that Ford cant fix this issue on the first visit.

Northwind · Apr 21, 2011

phoneman91 said:
Has anyone had the passenger side fuel intake replaced? And not the driver's side FPM-and had it actually fix the trouble?

Snippet from the TSB...

Mustang has a saddle type fuel tank in that there is a hump in the middle of the fuel tank for the driveshaft.

There is one electric pump and fuel level sensor (FL-1) on the LH (driver side) of the fuel tank, this is the FPM.

There is a fuel pick up and fuel level sensor (FL-2) on the RH (passenger side) of the fuel tank.

The system draws fuel first from the RH side of the tank. The FPM siphons fuel from the RH side of the tank via the fuel pick up. Once the fuel level on the RH is too low to siphon fuel, there are check valves that close and the fuel will now be drawn from the LH side of the tank via the FPM.

The fuel level senders read the fuel levels on both sides of the tank. The two values are averaged for display on the fuel gauge. The fuel gauge system will drop the fuel gauge indicator to E if it sees a large difference in the fuel levels from RH (FL-2) to LH (FL-1) fuel level sensor. The system is expecting the RH (FL-2) side of the tank to go down before the LH (FL-1). Sending the fuel gauge indicator to E and having the message center low fuel warning turn on warns the customer that he may run out of fuel. Replace the FPM. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 310-01.

They replaced my FL-1 on the first try, this worked for 1 tank of gas then the problem returned. On the second try they replaced FL-1 and FL-2 (plus a couple of hoses I think), this did not work either. At that point I reminded them that they were at the plate with a 0-2 count. After speaking with Ford and the area rep, they swapped out the gauge cluster which did the trick.

phoneman91 said:
I can't believe that Ford cant fix this issue on the first visit.

12 round trips to the dealer for me on this issue :censored:

JKidd · Apr 21, 2011

Northwind said:
As a warning, it's not just a fuel indication issue! When the gauge drops to zero, you have about 8 miles before the computer packs it in and shuts the car down, even though there is still 6 gallons of fuel in the car. (yeah, I was the looser standing on the side of the interstate with the dead 2 week old car )

But seriously, other than that, the car has been awesome

LOL! I was about 60 feet from the gas station pump, ready to take a right of the main road into the parking lot where the gas station is when mine decided it was too low to continue. Had to freakin' huff it across the parking lot to Autozone, buy and OVERPRICED gas can, fill it up at the station on my way back to the car, dump the few gallons into the car and then drive the 60 ft. to the gas pump to fill up. Good times....good times...

I did have this issue. Had the dealership address the TSB and fix it and so far (knock on wood) I have had no more issues.

FordCustSrvc · Apr 21, 2011

kiteboarder said:
Hello, this is my first post. I feel the need to revive this thread because I'm having the same problem.

Northwind... Did the problem ever come back? My wife's 2011 V6 stops reading once it gets to a little under half a tank. After a bit, the gauge suddenly shoots to zero. The other day the car shut off and I had to go bring gas to her. I put 1 galon in the tank, and the car started. We though that the gauge stopped reading at half a tank and go stuck, all the while consuming more gas, than suddenly advising it was empty and shutting down. We thought it was empty, but as you guys say, there might well be gas in there still.

BTW, the car is stuck at a 13MPG reading as well.

We done one repair already. To no avail. I'm scheduling the 2nd try very soon.

Hi kiteboarder,

My name is Deysha from Ford Customer Service. I would like to get this escalated for you. Could you message me with your VIN, mileage, contact info, and dealer?

Deysha

phoneman91 · Apr 21, 2011

And what is strange-is that when I test drove my Mustang right before I purchased it-it was running just fine with the two gallons that was installed at the factory. Just above empty and right before the icon came on. No false empty. But EVERY tank since has caused this failure. 100 Percent of the time.

Are these Chinese made FPMs? The same people that make the MT82 transmission?

Why hasn't Ford issued a new version of this FPM and corrected this issue 100 percent?

phoneman91 · Apr 21, 2011

FordCustSrvc said:
Hi kiteboarder,

My name is Deysha from Ford Customer Service. I would like to get this escalated for you. Could you message me with your VIN, mileage, contact info, and dealer?

Deysha

How do you escalate something like this? What is exactly done? Has a revised part number been issued?

Northwind · Apr 21, 2011

FordCustSrvc said:
Hi kiteboarder,

My name is Deysha from Ford Customer Service. I would like to get this escalated for you. Could you message me with your VIN, mileage, contact info, and dealer?

Deysha

Kudos for activly trolling the forums and getting involved

FordCustSrvc · Apr 27, 2011

phoneman91 said:
How do you escalate something like this? What is exactly done? Has a revised part number been issued?

Hi phoneman91,

I would escalate this to a Customer Service Manager and they work with the customer and the dealership to get the situation resolved. They (dealer and CSM) have multiple resources to get his problem resolved and will work with him until is back on the road. I do not have access to parts and can not see if a part has been revised or not sorry. Only the dealer has that info.

Deysha

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