flywheel resurfasing

Joes95GT said:

The power of a PM, huh? You must not like arguing with me.

Click to expand...

No...I meant it was funny how you got notice of this thread when your rarely over "here". (Grn92Lx)...got me now???? Whether it happened or not I thought it was funny...and to set any kind of question down...I LOVE argueing with ya...I can all day (imagine that)

Joes95GT said:

Oh ok, let me get this right. "Your buddies" have one. Isn't it convenient how others always have these "friends" that "support" their arguement. Do your "drag strip buddies" drive their cars daily? Let me guess, you must have driven their cars, too?

Click to expand...

Correct...no I have not drove "their" cars...but they had the good ole factory flywheel in there...I had a bit more detail on their cars in that one thread...to bad it was lost...we went on for a little while. My "friends" aren't here to support my argument...so I guess you got me there

Joes95GT said:

And, smartass, I drove my car daily when I put the aluminum flywheel in it for about 6 months. I got a new DD when I broke it.

Click to expand...

Personal namecalling isn't needed and is childish when you try to sum up your feelings with a word or two. It shows a loss of control. Try expressing it out in well thought out paragraphs Some people (like me) just can't go out and buy a new DD whenever they "break" something...if that was the case I would slap a supercharger on my car during a weekend and drive it until something "breaks" and then by another DD until I get fixed or set it aside and make it a "project car". Your fortunate. Just let people know what they are getting into before a drivetrain purchase. Alls I'm here for is to label pros/cons of a performance part. Just like I do with gears/throttle bodies/longtubes/flywheels/clutches/etc...etc...you've seen it.

Joes95GT said:

Also, flywheels don't kill transmissions. Clutches do. I have NEVER in my existence heard of a flywheel killing a trans. I think I'm getting your point, but the way your wrote it is vague.

Click to expand...

Never said that...and as you pointed out YOU knew what I was talking about which is who I was responding too. In this case the point was taken as needed. The extra intertia given to the flywheel with a stock one (assuming the clutch will fully grab it) hits harder because of that stored energy. So it isn't helping anything...but I never said it killed transmission.

Joes95GT said:

Lets proceed....

Click to expand...

Let's do...

Joes95GT said:

You know what I mean when I said stored energy "doesn't mean anything". Of course it means something, but as you put into parenthesis, it's relative, and in this case, quite meaningless.

Click to expand...

Well this goes down to the below where you put how my descripition/descriptor was a little vague. It goes vice versa in this too. You can't play both sides of the field here...or can you? In that case it isn't "quite meaningless". You lose rotational inertia (stored energy)...very simple.

Joes95GT said:

The idea of street v. strip cars got ignored as I was typing. Sorry. To the best of my knowledge, Bob Cosby's old '99 Cobra had an AFW and his car was still street legal (full A/C and P/S to boot). Please don't quote this part of the thread. I know there is an arguement to this, and I know you'd love to bring it up to try and make me look bad. This was my train of thought as I typed that paragraph - please spare us.

Click to expand...

Lol...I'm not talking about "street legal" or "street cars"...I'm talking about cars people are willing to drive and DO drive everyday. I could care less if you have an optional sandwich deli in the car...it doesn't matter. Do you drive the car everyday as your sole or transportation? I had to quote it...It isn't there to make you look bad...just I'm pointing it out to someone that may not read into that much. Sorry (seriously).

----------------------------------------------------

Joes95GT said:

I'm not too good at physics, but consider the following....

Click to expand...

I'll try...

Joes95GT said:

Spin a 40 pound weight off the end of the crankshaft at 800 RPM and try to grab it (i.e. taking off from a stop).

Click to expand...

The teeth could hurt me...hey are you just trying to hurt me

Stock flywheel weighs 21lbs by the way...not 40.

Joes95GT said:

Next, spin a 15 pound weight off the end of the crankshaft at 800 RPM and try to grab it (i.e. taking off from a stop).

Click to expand...

They are closer to the 11lb range I believe...

Yeah that will be easier to "grab" though I still may need stitches. Anyways enough of the corny dialogue by me...that is part of the reason why it can be a bit "jerky" as well with a lighter flywheel because it doesn't have that "skipping" as much across the clutch disc material. It will be more grabby during the engagement period which has a very similar occurence to clutch chatter. I hope you know what I'm trying to say here...


Good Luck with your AFW...

David wins.

5spd GT said:

No...I meant it was funny how you got notice of this thread when your rarely over "here". (Grn92Lx)...got me now???? Whether it happened or not I thought it was funny...and to set any kind of question down...I LOVE argueing with ya...I can all day (imagine that)

Click to expand...

And as long as we don't start splitting hairs, I can too.

5pd GT said:

Correct...no I have not drove "their" cars...but they had the good ole factory flywheel in there...I had a bit more detail on their cars in that one thread...to bad it was lost...we went on for a little while. My "friends" aren't here to support my argument...so I guess you got me there

Click to expand...

LOL. I didn't actually mean "here" in this forum. I just am using the term loosely, indicating how people always have these "friends" that they "know" all this stuff from. Let the truth be told that I have no friends. I'm sure you understand why.

5spd GT said:

Personal namecalling isn't needed and is childish when you try to sum up your feelings with a word or two. It shows a loss of control. Try expressing it out in well thought out paragraphs

Click to expand...

If I had any desire to sound smart with "well thought out" paragraphs, I would. You don't want to debate English with me when you don't even know that "name-calling" is hyphenated. I called you a smartass, in your past two attempts where you've tried to insert some form of dry, unnecessary sarcasm by using the little smileys. Tell me it wasn't meant like that. I'll believe it.

5pd GT said:

Some people (like me) just can't go out and buy a new DD whenever they "break" something.....Your fortunate.

Click to expand...

I can't either. Mine was free. No, my parents didn't buy it for me either. It was *given* to me. If you saw what it looked like, you would understand why it was free.

5pd GT said:

that is part of the reason why it can be a bit "jerky" as well with a lighter flywheel because it doesn't have that "skipping" as much across the clutch disc material. It will be more grabby during the engagement period which has a very similar occurence to clutch chatter. I hope you know what I'm trying to say here...

Click to expand...

DUDE! I knew you would bust me on the weights. I thought about actually looking it up but that would require too much effort. Anyhow, I think you're trying to say that the IFW would be easier?

I don't understand this (and please comment, although I don't really need to ask you to): I drove a car with an IFW for two years (DAILY!). I then, for the next six months drove a car (DAILY!) with an AFW. I say what I noticed and you tell me I'm wrong....? You don't have an AFW.

...................................






















OK, now tell me that you've driven someone's car who had one and it was harder to take off from stops.....

5pd GT said:

Good Luck with your AFW...

Click to expand...

Since you don't like smartass, I have a new name for you. In response to the above quote, I'll say: "Thanks Cupcake."

I'm just trying to have some fun. No, I don't mean anything by it.

Joe

Joes95GT said:

And as long as we don't start splitting hairs, I can too.LOL.

Click to expand...

Yeah I can go on with PM's (many know about it) if I just "have to

Joes95GT said:

I didn't actually mean "here" in this forum. I just am using the term loosely, indicating how people always have these "friends" that they "know" all this stuff from. Let the truth be told that I have no friends. I'm sure you understand why.

Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean about "friends"...I usually try to bust them up a bit when they say something that doesn't "fit". Boldsword and Raph130 were two "friends" that used that a lot on here (that is their usernames) I happen to notice they haven't been back since everyone jumped on them...

Joes95GT said:

If I had any desire to sound smart with "well thought out" paragraphs, I would. You don't want to debate English with me when you don't even know that "name-calling" is hyphenated. I called you a smartass, in your past two attempts where you've tried to insert some form of dry, unnecessary sarcasm by using the little smileys. Tell me it wasn't meant like that. I'll believe it.

Click to expand...

Well...then go for it. I like harder debates...trust me I can take it...again "you've seen it". I call it "dry wit" Okay, I give...I didn't meant it like that, do you believe me?...lol.

Joes95GT said:

I can't either. Mine was free. No, my parents didn't buy it for me either. It was *given* to me. If you saw what it looked like, you would understand why it was free.

Click to expand...

Well I know you were looking to buy a modular bottomend or something like that in the past (maybe you still are?)...so I see that you have projects ahead which would show me that you have some funds if need be...some of us college students (and the "other" things) get me down on money That is cool that it was given for free...that was a nice thing.

Joes95GT said:

DUDE! I knew you would bust me on the weights. I thought about actually looking it up but that would require too much effort. Anyhow, I think you're trying to say that the IFW would be easier?

Click to expand...

I just happened to remember the weights...

I was saying with the stored energy and it wanting to keep rotating even when you try to engage the clutch disc material to it it will make the transition between the "mating" easier with a iron flywheel because of the higher rotational mass. Some have commented on the more "jerkiness"...

Joes95GT said:

I don't understand this (and please comment, although I don't really need to ask you to): I drove a car with an IFW for two years (DAILY!). I then, for the next six months drove a car (DAILY!) with an AFW. I say what I noticed and you tell me I'm wrong....? You don't have an AFW.

Click to expand...

There was 3 "big" sources that recommended not to go with a AFW (Ed Curtis being one of them) but I can't remember the other industrious ones. Also when others on this forum and other forums I'm a part of state these "symptoms" and then your "drag buddies" tell you about their "noticings" you kind of take it to heart

Joes95GT said:

OK, now tell me that you've driven someone's car who had one and it was harder to take off from stops.....Since you don't like smartass, I have a new name for you. In response to the above quote, I'll say: "Thanks Cupcake."

Click to expand...

I have not actually driven a "street car" with a AFW...so I'm not going to lie to you. "Cupcake" is a little to fruity for me...but if it makes you feel better...

Joes95GT said:

I'm just trying to have some fun. No, I don't mean anything by it.

Joe

Click to expand...

That's okay Joe...

Stang8URImport - Your funny Nick

5spd GT said:

Stang8URImport - Your funny Nick

Click to expand...

Ok, I'm not getting much from the argument above, but I'd like to respond to the physics analogy posted above.

The answer to your question is that a 15 lbs weight would be easier to catch/stop if it has been thrown at you at the same speed as a 40 lb weight. A pretty obvious answer, but I think you are misinterpretting the results. A drag racing launch has nothing to do with ease of launch. If it did, you wouldn't launch at 6500 rpm, you'd launch right off of idle. Also, my clutch doesn't seem to have any problems grabbing my flywheel at any rpm. My tranny doesn't seem to have any problem managing the shock, and with the right tires and suspension, I will launch this car right off of redline with a single clutch drop.

The point is that you want as much stored energy to jump into your tires as possible, and you want your suspension/weight distribution/ tire combination set up so that it can handle all of the power and effectively put it to the ground - as opposed to wasting it by blowing away the tires.

In regard to your posit about stored energy being meaningless, I'll counter that stored evergy has everything to do with the difference between a heavy flywheel and a light one. In fact, stored energy is the only cause of a performance difference between an aluminum and iron flywheel.

The aluminum flywheel does not store as much energy as rpms increase which gives it an advantage in that the energy that would be stored in the flywheel has instead been exerted into the rotational force in the drivetrain and hence the driving force/power of your car.

In drag racing, that extra stored energy in the flywheel at a stop is put into your tires as soon as the clutch is dropped causing more force/power driving your car as it leaves the line. As your car moves down the track and rpms increase, the energy is transferred back and forth from the flywheel to the tires as rpms increase and then decrease (as you shift). Finally, when you cross the traps, rpms at the top of their powerband, the stored energy in the flywheel did not get put to good use. So, the advantage after you leave the line is to the lighter aluminum flywheel. Does it make up for the Iron one? Possibly. The longer the track, the more likely. However, will the difference be significant enough to justify the extra expenditure? Not to me.

That was very well said Chris...

Oh and on the IFW (I like the abbreviation by Joe) being "harder" on the trans/clutch...that was a "technical" type response...because technically it is true. Do I worry about it on my car...NOT AT ALL...just making a "pro" point about it...I like listing pros/cons...that is my personal preference.