For anyone thinking about buying Patriot heads....

MedievaL · Feb 18, 2008

10secgoal said:
Take a look at the QC. I'm just letting you guys know. Hopefully you can see for yourself, I don't have an "ax to grind." Or hopefully you'll remember these pics when someone says "So and so used them, and they are a huge company that goes to SEMA, so they must work, there's just no way." Or later someone will show us a thread of how some big company "Now backs" them, so it must make it OK. Will it work ? Probably.I'm throwing it up fellas, do with the info what you will.

http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=43122

Wow..that is rediculous.

DJCarbine · Feb 18, 2008

Looks like someone had a 5th of jack and got bored with a dremel

classic boost · Feb 19, 2008

as bad as those heads look, they seem better than the junk protoplines i got.

mrmustangman357 · Feb 19, 2008

theres another tread where AFR posted up and PWNED them by buying a set and detailing them in a similar manner, and also flowing them head to head.

69gmachine · Feb 19, 2008

You have to consider that they are budget heads. You should really be comparing them to ported E7TE heads, not AFRs.

I remember when you couldn't get an aftermarket Ford Windsor head at any price. I bought a set of hi-port TFS heads when they came out around '92. IIRC, they were just under a grand for a set of bare heads and both the intake and exhaust ports were really rough. The water jacket at the front didn't line up very well either. But they were aluminum Windsor heads and I had a set!

I'm glad there are so many to choose from today. Even if you're on a tight budget, you can still get a set of aluminum heads that flow better than any E7TE casting and weigh 1/2 as much. If I was building a mild performance 302 with my son for his first car, and we wanted to stay within his burger flipping budget, I could see us buying a set of these.

66Runt · Feb 20, 2008

Any chance these things are coming out of China? Not to knock China, but I've lived through horror on chinese QC at a company I used to work for. It's just all over the place. Statistical analysis becomes like String Theory.

65ShelbyClone · Feb 21, 2008

66Runt said:
Any chance these things are coming out of China?

Did you read the link? Patriot said "offshore countries." That is the dodgy way of saying "Yes, our heads are POSs made in China." I don't worry so much anymore about stuff coming out of Taiwan and Malaysia because that stuff isn't junk anymore; China replaced them in that regard.

Look at the picture of the exhaust side machine work. Not only did they simply flycut it, the spindle on the machine was really loose. REALLY loose.

I bought Edelbrocks on a shoestring budget. I just had to save a little longer, but the quality is far and away superior to those Patriots.

fvike · Feb 21, 2008

I've read somewhere that Patriot heads are bad quality China knock-offs of the AFR 185.

Fast63 · Feb 23, 2008

69gmachine said:
You have to consider that they are budget heads. You should really be comparing them to ported E7TE heads, not AFRs.

For BUDGET, you should expect a set of heads that don't look pretty and flow less, not JUNK!!!! Those heads will not even function properly and will likely cause damage to the engine.

69gmachine · Feb 23, 2008

Fast63 said:
For BUDGET, you should expect a set of heads that don't look pretty and flow less, not JUNK!!!! Those heads will not even function properly and will likely cause damage to the engine.

I must admit I didn't catch the picture of the valve seat overlap, but it looks to me like the hardened exhaust seats are not installed. I know more than one shop that's building budget long blocks and even complete engines with these heads, so while the QC is certainly sub par, they seem to be able to assemble a running engine with them. I don't see how the head as pictured would allow the valves to seat. No damage would be done, it just flat wouldn't run.

Voting with our wallets is what makes free enterprise work. The Chinese are new to the game. Don't buy their stuff and they'll either go out of business or improve their QC.

65ShelbyClone · Feb 23, 2008

That's just it; the Chinese are NOT new new to the manufacturing game. I mean jeez, how hard is it to copy something?! The casting is the hardest, yet it appears to be the only part of those heads that isn't a problem. The finishing is just abysmal and there is really no excuse for that.

DJCarbine · Feb 23, 2008

65ShelbyClone said:
That's just it; the Chinese are NOT new new to the manufacturing game. I mean jeez, how hard is it to copy something?! The casting is the hardest, yet it appears to be the only part of those heads that isn't a problem. The finishing is just abysmal and there is really no excuse for that.

Chinese usually copy first have have QC issues, Taiwan usually comes second and actually has a better product, and then come the OEM manufacturers like USA and Japan. Thats the basic rule I use when buying things. Even my chinese friends tell me not to buy chinese stuff

65ShelbyClone · Feb 23, 2008

You know, I think other manufacturing countries like Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Korea have come a long way in the last 20-30 years. (Alright, Taiwan and HC are part of China, but they might as well be autonomous).

I find that even if Chinese copies of something appear decent and the dimensions are fine, often the materials themselves are substandard. Usually the machining, assembly, and QC are problems before that, though.

Sacramento6 · Feb 24, 2008

The fact that the OP from the other forum needed more than 3 pictures to tell the story of some seriously poor manufacturing is stunning. It seems like such a waste of time and resources to even produce heads, or anything, that poorly.

You get what you pay for.

69gmachine · Feb 24, 2008

65ShelbyClone said:
That's just it; the Chinese are NOT new new to the manufacturing game. I mean jeez, how hard is it to copy something?! The casting is the hardest, yet it appears to be the only part of those heads that isn't a problem. The finishing is just abysmal and there is really no excuse for that.

I meant new to free enterprise.

They have a long way to go to embrace the concepts of brand loyalty and recognition, but they can't sell a crappy product forever. Again vote with your wallet.

StangDreamin' · Feb 24, 2008

I'm a redneck born in a town right off the border with Mexico - and sometimes display all the stereotypical attitude you could possibly think of. However, I'm thinking "That set of heads may have been cast overseas; but they were shipped out to a customer by a guy here in the U.S.! Why weren't they rejected off the shop floor??????"

I don't care where they were cast; a company here in the United States shipped them - and that says pretty much everything about that company.

Coreyned · Mar 3, 2008

Those arent the same as patriot stage 2 heads are they? the quality, I was going to buy them just saving for them atm

For anyone thinking about buying Patriot heads....

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