For those of you that don't understand "valve-train terms like OHV, OHC, SOHC, DOHC..

yes it is possible. that is how car manufactures are making very efficient and more powerful engines with a lot less cubic inches. i know lexus has v6s that almost 100hp per liter. the is350 has a 306 hp 3.5l v6. toyota has a 270hp 3.5l v6. the same engine just tuned differently. technology has advanced so much over the years. while it is much more expensive to build and more complicated then ohv, its 3 times as efficient. plus ohc engines allow variable valve timing such as hondas vtec and toyota uses vvt-i which cam timing is electronically advanced and retarded depending on rpm and load. very interesting stuff
 
I would be more impressed with bigger c.i. motors with DOHC. BUT with fuel economy on the brain and costs $$ I think that will remain fairly rare. Personally, I like the big c.i. OHV better. Its just more rock and roll man. The DOHC are too smooth for me lol. I have my likes and dislikes. But the animation is pretty cool huh!
 
I would be more impressed with bigger c.i. motors with DOHC. BUT with fuel economy on the brain and costs $$ I think that will remain fairly rare. Personally, I like the big c.i. OHV better. Its just more rock and roll man. The DOHC are too smooth for me lol. I have my likes and dislikes. But the animation is pretty cool huh!

Yes ... That is the main reason I dislike the mod motor so much :notnice:

It just ain't big enough :nono:
to produce low end torque that is enough to speak about :bang:

Grady
 
OHC engines are great, but it has always been a mystery to me how other vehicle manufacturers are able to pull 300+ hp out of a V6 that displaces less than 4.0L, but a V8 mod motor can't make more than 320hp from the factory without a blower.
 
OHC engines are great, but it has always been a mystery to me how other vehicle manufacturers are able to pull 300+ hp out of a V6 that displaces less than 4.0L, but a V8 mod motor can't make more than 320hp from the factory without a blower.

Click on that link. Really it's not some huge build up to the animation, its right there when you click on it with the engines side by side (like see through) of what the drivetrain is actually doing. It makes a lot of sense after seeing it.
 
Click on that link. Really it's not some huge build up to the animation, its right there when you click on it with the engines side by side (like see through) of what the drivetrain is actually doing. It makes a lot of sense after seeing it.
Oh, I clicked on the link. I was just being a little facetious with the whole "mystery" thing. I was just saying that I wish Ford's OHC mod motors made more power from the factory. It's like they've never really cared to explore the mod motor's power potential. Unless you're talking about the 5.0 cammer.

Great link, by the way! Very informative. :)
 
Here's a little more info for those that are interested.

When you look at a pushrod motor, it doesn't make sense. You have to understand how the pushrod V8 evolved. The first V8s were designed like the flathead Ford. The valves were mounted parallel to the cylinder and opened upwards into the combustion chamber. The designers placed the camshaft in the valley, because that was the logical location. From there, the camshaft pushed almost directly on the valve, much like an overhead cam engine of today does. After that, Buick designed an engine where the value opened sideways into the comubstion chamber. The valve opening and closing motion was perpendicular to the motion of the piston. In order to accomplish this, they left the camshaft down in the valley, and placed rockers inside the valley to actuate the valves. It was later discovered that in order to get engine efficiency and power up, the compression ratio had to come up. In order to get the combustion chamber volume down, engine manufacturers more the valve to the top of the cylinder, where it has remained to this day. Instead of moving the camshaft to the top of the engine, when Chevy invented the SBC, they took the Buick design with the rocker, and added a pushrod to the valve system to have the valve open vertically into the combustion chamber. That is how the pushrod engine evolved.

Now, a lot of people don't like OHC engines, but I don't think most people understand why. OHC engines do not necessarily have a distinct hp/liter advantage. They do however have a huge advantage in the RPM range. When you have a pushrod engine, there is always a limitation on how fast you can spin it. In order to turn the engine faster, you have to put much stronger valve springs in it. Bigger valve springs, means they wear out faster, and they wear out the valvetrain quicker. This is all comes down to reciprocating mass. A pushrod engine has a huge valvetrain mass (valves, rockers, pushrods, lifters) that is reversing directions with ever motion of the valve. The OHC engine has just as much valvetrain mass, when you consider you have the added belts or chains and multiple camshafts. However, all of this mass is rotating in one direction. The only reciprocating mass in an OHC engine is the valve itself. It doesn't take a lot of spring pressure to reverse so little mass.

Now, most Mustang people don't like OHC engines, because the 4.6 sucks so bad. And admittedly, it sucks. But it's not because it's an OHC engine. The 4.6 sucks, because it's a small bore engine (3.55" to the 5.0s "4.00"). Small bore engines have trouble making power N/A. Simple physics, the force exerted on the piston is the combustion pressure multiplied by the surface area of the piston. A 4.6 engine has only 79% the piston area of a 5.0 engine. So with the same combustion pressure, the 4.6 is only getting 79% of the force down on the piston. In my opinion, Ford should have designed an engine for the Mustang with a bigger bore, and a lower deck height, and obviously a shorter stroke for RPM. If the modular engine had the same 4.00" stroke and 3.00" bore as the pushrod 5.0, you could make it sounds just as nasty, and make even power out of it with less effort. The smaller bore engines do have an advantage when you put the boost to them though. That is why you see these Honda Civics with 2.0 Prelude engines running high 10 second quarter miles in street trim. Those smal bore engines can take a lot more boost, and much higher combustion pressures without detonating.

Kurt
 
You guys need to drive a new 4.6L. You are missing out.

So a 4.6L can not make power?

Mods are

-Hitech Motorsport ported heads
-Long tube headers
-C&L CAI
-UD pullies
-High flow cats
-Hitech Motorsport 87oct tuning
-Stock cat-back
-Stock cams
-Stock intake
-Stock 55,000 mile short block
-Stock TB
-Charge motion plates still in place, and operating as factory.


It made 340 RWHP and 346 RWTQ - drives like stock. Imagine changing out everything in bold; can you say 400 RWHP with 281 American CI's. By the way, the "torqueless" 285 RWTQ @ 2650 RPM.

I would rather have 10 HP at 3,000 RPM than 10 FT. LBS at 3,000 RPM.

Small bores are good for emissions and CAFE. The LsX engines have a small bore, compared to their stroke as well. You cannot get a big bore out of them either, without going aftermarket.
 
I didn't mean to say that mod motors are completely incapable of making any power. I was just referring to how Ford never really seemed to care to bring out any of their true potential in N/A trim from the factory.
 
Ford did bring it out some N/A power with the FR500 which makes 400 hp. Unfortunately the car never made it to production. The LSx engines start with a 3.90" bore in the LS1, which I don't consider to be small bore compared to the 4.6's 3.55" bore. 3.90" is a good compromise. And they undeniably make power a lot easier than the 4.6s do.

Kurt
 
You guys need to drive a new 4.6L. You are missing out.

So a 4.6L can not make power?

Mods are

-Hitech Motorsport ported heads
-Long tube headers
-C&L CAI
-UD pullies
-High flow cats
-Hitech Motorsport 87oct tuning
-Stock cat-back
-Stock cams
-Stock intake
-Stock 55,000 mile short block
-Stock TB
-Charge motion plates still in place, and operating as factory.


It made 340 RWHP and 346 RWTQ - drives like stock. Imagine changing out everything in bold; can you say 400 RWHP with 281 American CI's. By the way, the "torqueless" 285 RWTQ @ 2650 RPM.

I would rather have 10 HP at 3,000 RPM than 10 FT. LBS at 3,000 RPM.

Small bores are good for emissions and CAFE. The LsX engines have a small bore, compared to their stroke as well. You cannot get a big bore out of them either, without going aftermarket.

Sounds interesting David :nice:

Whose car is this :shrug:

I'd love to see a dyno chart :)

Do you know if there is one to be seen?

Grady
 
Ford did bring it out some N/A power with the FR500 which makes 400 hp. Unfortunately the car never made it to production. The LSx engines start with a 3.90" bore in the LS1, which I don't consider to be small bore compared to the 4.6's 3.55" bore. 3.90" is a good compromise. And they undeniably make power a lot easier than the 4.6s do.

Kurt

I disagree.

The bore to stroke ratio for the 4.6L (3V) is 1.002".

The bore to stroke ratio for the 5.7L (Ls1) is 1.064".

That is not a big difference.

Let alone, the 4.6L 3V makes more power per cubic inch that the ls1 engine.

The Ls1 can make big power with simple changes, but I have shown that a 4.6L can as well - cube to cube.

Small bore, big stroke will be around for a long time. The Japanese have been doing it well before domestic car manufacturers came around.

It took Ford, 12 years to go with 7% less cubic inches, but make 31% more RWHP.

Technology and advancement are great.
 
I hate technology, give me a pushrod and 1 cam anyday.

I work for a Ford dealer, I can honestly say my 88 5.0L which is remotely stock, has way more torque and just good feel to it than the new 300hp 4.6l. And you can pop the hood on mine and know what your doing and do it with realatively no special tools.
The 4.6 however needs a lot of attention and some expensive special tools. They are pretty reliable though.
 
Sounds interesting David :nice:

Whose car is this :shrug:

I'd love to see a dyno chart :)

Do you know if there is one to be seen?

Grady

Ditto. Must be a new one. But still why are we comparing old stock 5.0 196x technology to 2010 lol. It is an unfair comparison for the 5.0's sake. Technology will eventually catch up. All things equal, c.i. always wins and a 5.0 will always make more power than a 4.6.