From Left Field: Hydrogen injection - mileage, emissions

[kmterrill]

No problem. I don't know if either of those two products can make enough hydrogen to be of any real impact.

 

[70vert]

here's a new one, hydrogen from gasoline

using an on-board reformer:

http://auto.consumerguide.com/Articles/index.cfm/act/featuredarticles/article/FA_HYDROGEN_BOOSTED_ENGINE.html

"A small amount of hydrogen made on-board by the reformer is added to the normal intake air and gasoline mixture. This greatly improves overall combustion quality by allowing nearly twice as much air for a given amount of fuel introduced into the combustion chamber. This is more energy efficient because it saves energy by reducing the amount of engine pumping needed."

as gas prices go up, this might become a more attractive option, and I have to confess to feeling a little guilty about the greenhouse-gas issue - this could lower it substantially and we could be even more proud of our vintage mustangs . . . can't wait for a viable product to hit the market, I'd try this on my old 302 that is destined to be replaced if it were being produced . . .

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Pardon me, but I thought that in an internal combustion engine worked by rapidly expanding gasses driving a piston. Not the actual heat of combustion driving the piston down.

.....and that expansion can't happen without the gasses being heated.

I thought I responded to this thread way back when, but apparently not. Before anyone gets all enthusiastic about hydrogen vehicles, make sure whatever hydrogen used comes from water. I did quite a bit of research on the viability of hydrogen in reducing dependence on oil. What I found out is that large quantities of commercially available hydrogen fuel either do or will come from oil.crapola

 

[phutch11]

The problem with the idea in the link of the first posting and any other idea that tells you that you can gain efficency by generating hydrogen on board your car by electrolysis of water is a little thing called the 1st Law of Thermodynamics.

A engineer or scientist will tell you that it says that the change in the internal energy of system is equal to the heat added to the system minus the work done by the system.

What this means to the rest of us is that it takes more power to produce the hydrogen by electrolysis than you get out by burning it.

This idea is akin to the perpetual motion machine...it just won't work.

 

[kmterrill]

The problem with the idea in the link of the first posting and any other idea that tells you that you can gain efficency by generating hydrogen on board your car by electrolysis of water is a little thing called the 1st Law of Thermodynamics.

A engineer or scientist will tell you that it says that the change in the internal energy of system is equal to the heat added to the system minus the work done by the system.

What this means to the rest of us is that it takes more power to produce the hydrogen by electrolysis than you get out by burning it.

This idea is akin to the perpetual motion machine...it just won't work.

The hydrogen is not being used for making power in this process. It is being used as more of an accelerant to the combustion process.

You would be correct if you were burning the hydrogen as fuel. However it is being used as an accelerant in the process.

 

[TOM B]

I think we need to ask Willy Nelson!!