got a ticket tonight

mattzts · Apr 21, 2008

no luck these days. this one is for careless driving.

I met some friends at work. we were talking in the parking lot for a bit. then decide to go to Applebees. So we go to head out jump in our cars. I had to go the opposite way from where my car was facing. So its an empty parking lot. So i just pull out of the space busting a u turn right away from the space. Granted I wasnt doing like 5mph maybe like 10-15mph. So I go out of the back of the parking lot, get on the street. Right away theres a cop behind me. I'm like wtf is this I just got on the street and didnt even hit the limit of 40 yet. The cop comes up and asks me" whats up with the donuts in the parking lot?" I say "what donuts?" he replies" I'm not in the mood for games tonight license and registration."

So I guess I'm gonna be going to court for this. I went back to the parking lot to drop my friend off after Applebees. I checked there are no tire marks at all. I dont know what this guys deal was.

oh well. just a quick rant. its an annoyance i dont want right now. Since i have other things to be worrying about.

I didnt even know a cop could give a ticket for something on private property?

xxrequiemxx · Apr 21, 2008

gotta love cops :\

DarkFireGT · Apr 21, 2008

I don't think they can give you a ticket for something you did on private property. Either way, you obviously didn't do a donut, so I would definitely fight it.

"I'm not in the mood for games tonight" says it all. Make sure you bring that up at court. He was obviously in a bad mood and taking it out on you.

Emay · Apr 21, 2008

Seconding Darks comments, problem is in order to keep this cheap you'll want to represent yourself. Locally here, when you appear you are asked up front if your pleading guilty or not guilty, you don't get to tell your story. Just answer the question. A not guilty let's you go sit back down and re-appear after all the other cases are called. It's honestly a 3 hour ordeal on the short end with all the traffic tickets they call in our area. Which is a bigger annoyance than anything else, especially when you did nothing.

The next time something like that happens, I would feel the cop out a bit, he seemed angry already, but if he seems reasonable, ask him to accompany you back to the parking lot so you can show him you were not doing donuts. If he doesn't want to go, then just take the ticket and battle it in court.

o0Dan0o · Apr 21, 2008

DarkFireGT said:
I don't think they can give you a ticket for something you did on private property. Either way, you obviously didn't do a donut, so I would definitely fight it.

"I'm not in the mood for games tonight" says it all. Make sure you bring that up at court. He was obviously in a bad mood and taking it out on you.

++

I was in a an accident in a parking lot and was told by the officer that fault could not be assessed by the police on private property (unless fault was obvious, like backing into someone or rearending someone), since there are no traffic laws for private property.
Dan

mattzts · Apr 21, 2008

yeah I didnt think to ask him back to the lot till after. I mean I told him I wasnt doing donuts and he responded with im not in the mood for games. I was gonna go back to the police station after I got back from applebees and ask for a supervisor. I figured tho since the ticket was wrote he wouldnt be able to do anything anyway.

6773 · Apr 21, 2008

In Michigan you can be cited for careless driving or reckless driving on private property. In a private property accident situation involving something less than careless/reckless (like fail to yield) you cannot be cited. Sounds like NJ might be similar.

mrmustangman357 · Apr 21, 2008

whenever I get a ticket, I always write down the exact circumstances of the ticket and any obervations I made, then paper-clip it to the ticket when I hold on to it. Go back and take photos of the lot and show that it is on private property more importantly show there were no marks. make sure to take notes on his demeanor and EXACTLY what you said. its always helpful to refer back to notes in court than say, "umm , well he said da dad aasdas sad asfnaljfasj" etc

Hoboattacker · Apr 21, 2008

I doubt you will win. It's a he said she said argument and the other guy is a cop. They will ALWAYS take the cops side unless it's 200% obvious that the cop was wrong (ex. police brutality). Even then, they sometimes take the cops side.

Best advice hasn't been given yet...call up a lawyer and see what they have to say about it. A simple traffic lawyer might be able to fix it for you. Might cost you 2-500 but you wont get the points on your record or the insurance hike.

blacksheep06 · Apr 21, 2008

Sounds like a clear case of profiling. He probably wouldn't have given you a second look had you been driving a family sedan. He sounds like a real jerk, should have given you a verbal warning and went about his business.

Did you squeel the tires? Do you have loud exhaust?

I just barely rolled through a 4way stop and got pulled over a few years ago. I was driving a red 98 gt with o/r pipe and 2 chamber flows. I revved it and took off kind of quick though not hard nor did I break the tires loose.

But he pulled me over for not completely stopping. Didn't say anything about the exhaust but I know that's what triggered the traffic stop. Had I not have made a bunch of racket or been driving a red performance car he probably would have ignored the insufficient stop.

That's why I'm on extra good behavior in city limits with this car no matter what town I'm in.

mrmustangman357 · Apr 21, 2008

hey thats the cost of driving a mustang

Mr_Q · Apr 21, 2008

You can beat it in court if you plan carefully. The whole, "the judge takes the cops side always." is only true for people that don't present their case properly. If you stand up and just say, "no I didn't, he's lying." then yes, you'll lose.

Before court...
Take pictures of the exact spot you pulled out of and the area where your car was seen driving. To show no burnout marks. Make note of the time and weather too.

In court...
Ask the officer exactly what did he see that warranted a stop. Then be sure that he validate his replies with evidence. The cop saying, "well I saw you do a burnout." Doesn't work. Just as it doesn't work for you saying, "no I didn't." The officer has to provide evidence as to the offense.

It can be intimidating, it is supposed to be. You are suppose to just be afraid and not question the officer. But you have every right too. And the judge will only respect your position more if you handle it properly.

The officer will most likely offer up one or both of these reasons. "I heard him doing a burnout." or "I saw him doing a burnout." This is when you counter with your evidence.

You tell the judge you think the officer is in error. That you did not do a burnout or disturb the peace. That you simply executed a u-turn to leave the parking spot. You can offer that from a distance it might be misread as a burnout. But then you go on to show how their is no evidence that one was performed.

Burnouts, as everyone knows, leave smoke and marks behind. You could even provide additional photo evidence of various tire marks on the ground from burnouts. For comparison. Especially if he says he saw smoke, there most definitely would be marks left behind.

Tell the judge that the officer's disposition at time of citation also seemed aggressive. Tell the judge exactly what the officer said to you. If you had a friend with you at the time, have them in court too or sign a document as witness to what was said. Again, always back up every defensive move with evidence where you can.

I cannot stress the importance of the photos needed. Other than the photo evidence it is his word against yours. The judge will listen if you are clear and calm and show sincerity but you need some form of proof.

Don't be afraid and don't dismiss the judge and the courts. They work for you if you handle them properly, mostly. You have to realize 95% just pay their fines and don't bother to go to court. The other 5% that do go, 4.99% act like morons in front of the judge.

If you come prepared, do your research, the judge will respect that you made the effort.

Most the forms and legal research you need are online.

Good luck.

stanmckinney · Apr 21, 2008

I would also speak calmly, politely and respectfully. If you lose your temper, you will lose the case.
Also, if this is your first offense they may very well listen. If it is not, well, you probably have a problem.

stangdude2000 · Apr 21, 2008

I'd be curious to hear more about the careless driving rules/laws in MI. If they can ticket you for traffic violations on private property, then a cop who needs to make his quota just needs to sit at the local dragstrip with his ticket book.

Parking lots often fall into a grey area. Most are not state or city owned and maintained and therefore are not "public" in its normal sense. Since they are, however, accessible to the general public without seeking prior permission to enter the property, it begins to get a bit cloudy. I believe it is typically considered a semi-private area. It is likely city or state decision on how this is handled. This is likely the exact situation as 6773 described about MI.

6773 · Apr 22, 2008

stangdude2000 said:
I'd be curious to hear more about the careless driving rules/laws in MI. If they can ticket you for traffic violations on private property, then a cop who needs to make his quota just needs to sit at the local dragstrip with his ticket book.

Parking lots often fall into a grey area. Most are not state or city owned and maintained and therefore are not "public" in its normal sense. Since they are, however, accessible to the general public without seeking prior permission to enter the property, it begins to get a bit cloudy. I believe it is typically considered a semi-private area. It is likely city or state decision on how this is handled. This is likely the exact situation as 6773 described about MI.

In Michigan police can cite for reckless/careless on any private property open to the public. The most common application is parking lots and it does not have to be government owned property.

mattzts · Apr 22, 2008

Mr_Q said:
You can beat it in court if you plan carefully. The whole, "the judge takes the cops side always." is only true for people that don't present their case properly. If you stand up and just say, "no I didn't, he's lying." then yes, you'll lose.

Before court...
Take pictures of the exact spot you pulled out of and the area where your car was seen driving. To show no burnout marks. Make note of the time and weather too.

In court...
Ask the officer exactly what did he see that warranted a stop. Then be sure that he validate his replies with evidence. The cop saying, "well I saw you do a burnout." Doesn't work. Just as it doesn't work for you saying, "no I didn't." The officer has to provide evidence as to the offense.

It can be intimidating, it is supposed to be. You are suppose to just be afraid and not question the officer. But you have every right too. And the judge will only respect your position more if you handle it properly.

The officer will most likely offer up one or both of these reasons. "I heard him doing a burnout." or "I saw him doing a burnout." This is when you counter with your evidence.

You tell the judge you think the officer is in error. That you did not do a burnout or disturb the peace. That you simply executed a u-turn to leave the parking spot. You can offer that from a distance it might be misread as a burnout. But then you go on to show how their is no evidence that one was performed.

Burnouts, as everyone knows, leave smoke and marks behind. You could even provide additional photo evidence of various tire marks on the ground from burnouts. For comparison. Especially if he says he saw smoke, there most definitely would be marks left behind.

Tell the judge that the officer's disposition at time of citation also seemed aggressive. Tell the judge exactly what the officer said to you. If you had a friend with you at the time, have them in court too or sign a document as witness to what was said. Again, always back up every defensive move with evidence where you can.

I cannot stress the importance of the photos needed. Other than the photo evidence it is his word against yours. The judge will listen if you are clear and calm and show sincerity but you need some form of proof.

Don't be afraid and don't dismiss the judge and the courts. They work for you if you handle them properly, mostly. You have to realize 95% just pay their fines and don't bother to go to court. The other 5% that do go, 4.99% act like morons in front of the judge.

If you come prepared, do your research, the judge will respect that you made the effort.

Most the forms and legal research you need are online.

Good luck.

thanks for the advice.

I took pictures of the parking lot today early morning before any cars were there. I took pics of the space i was parked in, the area I did the u turn, and the entrance to the back parking lot i went thru. I also took pictures of my tires to show that my over 10k mile tires have no pre mature wear.

I told my friend that was driving his car infront of mine to right a statement. since the cop told me we were both doing donuts. the cop ironically did a crazy fast u turn with tires squealing to get behind me and almost crashed into my friends car. Anyway im having him and my other friend that was in his car write a statement.

the only problem is my camera doesnt have a time stamp on it for when the pictures get printed. i can bring the camera with me since that info comes up in the view mode on the camera.

ApexStang · Apr 22, 2008

Sounds like you are doing your homework. I hope this turns out in your favor. Don't forget to keep us up to date. When is the court date?

Art161 · Apr 22, 2008

mattzts said:
I told my friend that was driving his car infront of mine to right a statement. since the cop told me we were both doing donuts. the cop ironically did a crazy fast u turn with tires squealing to get behind me and almost crashed into my friends car. Anyway im having him and my other friend that was in his car write a statement.

Courts prefer live witnesses to written statements. If your friends can not appear in court, at least get sworn statements that are notarized.

mattzts · Apr 22, 2008

they work. so i'm not gonna ask them to take off.

i have a court date for monday. I think its just to enter my plea tho. which of course will be not guilty.

shooterm1 · Apr 22, 2008

get a lawyer

got a ticket tonight

mattzts

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Playing with my wife's really makes me want one.

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