H Pattern Is A Thing Of The Past?

elarm1 · Nov 7, 2017

Discuss...

View: https://youtu.be/DG12jmFsI7M

CarMichael Angelo · Nov 7, 2017

I think it's cool, but there has to be a reason that that shifter handle gives new meaning to a long shaft with extra girth....the things huge!

90sickfox · Nov 7, 2017

If they could automate an air cylinder for the clutch into a button on that shifter then we'd be " cooking with Crisco, baby "

1990slow50H · Nov 7, 2017

I'll never have anything worthy of that!

Mustang5L5 · Nov 7, 2017

I'd have to give it a shot first. How do you get into reverse?

stangboy · Nov 7, 2017

Mustang5L5 said:
I'd have to give it a shot first. How do you get into reverse?

That little reverse lockout button, then I think you push the shifter forward and it goes in reverse. There was a video floating around of how it works a couple days ago.

Flatfoot · Nov 7, 2017

Good grief $2400 for a shifter is a little bit outta my price range.

revhead347 · Nov 7, 2017

Everything has it's downsides. Yes it shifts faster, and also makes it harder to drive on the street. I have been thinking about what it would take to make standard H-gate shifter work like a V-gate shifter when the drivetrain is under positive torque a lot lately.

Kurt

imp · Nov 7, 2017

90sickfox said:
If they could automate an air cylinder for the clutch into a button on that shifter then we'd be " cooking with Crisco, baby "

Ford has just about done something like that in the Focus and Fiesta, selling an "automatic" which is actually a plain old stick shift having computer-controlled clutch functions and clutch release requirements. This bastardization has topped the cake. Tops in customer complaints and tops in warranty claims. I was amazed when I learned they marketed this, found they tried it in the European market first.

My nephew had a rented Focus recently, told me forget buying one, I wouldn't like it. He didn't elaborate. imp

General karthief · Nov 8, 2017

We have a focus se, it's her car.
Total chic mobile, now move up to that ecoboost model and I would like it better.

Adieu · Nov 9, 2017

imp said:
Ford has just about done something like that in the Focus and Fiesta, selling an "automatic" which is actually a plain old stick shift having computer-controlled clutch functions and clutch release requirements.

Ford...

and literally everyone else.

There's multiple names out there, VW/Audi/Porsche calls theirs a "Direct Shift Gearbox" or "DSG" for short. Hyundai calls theirs a "Dual Clutch Transmission" or "DCT" for short. BMW calls theirs a "Double-Clutch Gearbox"...

Everyone but Ford went with a wet clutch, like you'd find on a motorcycle. Ford went with a dry clutch.

They're also nothing like the shifter above, or the scenario that @90sickfox proposed. You simply put them in "Drive" and go, with the computer doing everything, unless you want to use steering wheel paddles or a bump-shift gate on the shifter if either is provided.

Ford's version of this technology had extra teething problems due to the dry clutch (which they adopted to prolong fluid change intervals in the transmission for the American market, running a wet clutch like the others would've decreased fluid life dramatically), as well as them rushing it to market too soon. They even recalled the clutches in them and replaced them (our parts department at the Ford dealership I was working for at the time had 10 shelves of clutches waiting to be installed and a group of techs that was doing nothing but clutches day-in and day-out to catch up). Most of those have been figured out, they still don't drive worth a damn, but they're at least reliable at this point.

Hyundai also had some issues with the DCT when it was first released in the Veloster, but those were all fixed with software revisions.

That Bremer shifter looks amazing... but for $2400... nope... I'll keep my 3-spd sequential attached to my C4 with the manual valvebody for the moment, and just use the trusty H-pattern when I swap it over to a real manual.

imp · Nov 9, 2017

74stang2togo said:
Ford...
and literally everyone else.
That Bremer shifter looks amazing... but for $2400... nope... I'll keep my 3-spd sequential attached to my C4 with the manual valvebody for the moment, and just use the trusty H-pattern when I swap it over to a real manual.

A breath of fresh air, from someone "in the know"! Thank you so much for this! I had thought no one noticed, or was even concerned about, Ford seemingly having flushed down the toilet, their immensely popular little cars.

When I learned of the setup, I immediately began thinking up scenerios where human judgment regarding clutch activation and shift scheduling HAD to over ride programmed PCM response. No one responded. You did. I thank you.
imp

hoopty5.0 · Nov 10, 2017

madmike1157 said:
I think it's cool, but there has to be a reason that that shifter handle gives new meaning to a long shaft with extra girth....the things huge!

So you can grip it and rip it, good sir.

Bullitt347 · Nov 10, 2017

imp said:
My nephew had a rented Focus recently, told me forget buying one, I wouldn't like it. He didn't elaborate. imp

My son leased a 2014 Focus that had that auto/clutch. After about 12K miles it started acting up. 1 day at the Dealership and it was replaced. No problems after that. I have a 2016 Ecoboost Focus. It does not have that clutch, it has the Stop/Start feature though, which works very well. Seem-less operation. Amazing little engine. 1 liter (62 cid) 3 cylinder...126 HP! That is about 2 HP per cubic inch! Not bad. It gets awesome fuel mileage.

CarMichael Angelo · Nov 10, 2017

imp said:
A breath of fresh air, from someone "in the know"! Thank you so much for this! I had thought no one noticed, or was even concerned about, Ford seemingly having flushed down the toilet, their immensely popular little cars.
When I learned of the setup, I immediately began thinking up scenerios where human judgment regarding clutch activation and shift scheduling HAD to over ride programmed PCM response. No one responded. You did. I thank you.
imp

Time to come into the 21st Century gentlemen.
* "Back in my day,...We had three gears that we had to shift ourselves, the transmissions got hotter than hell because of converter slippage, most of them were cooked at 75,000 miles, and dammit! We liked it!"

Whether you like the technology laden gizmos that engineers are putting in the new cars or not, the fact is that faster shifting transmissions that do not rely on a hugely inefficient torque converter to couple the drivetrain to the road will in fact contribute to you being able to take " a breath of fresh air."

I have to talk to people everyday that buy BMW's. It's always the crotchety assed raisins that refuse to move on past a flip phone. Somehow,..an older human brain becomes cloudy, dim witted, slow moving, and stubborn when you mention the words Bluetooth, and smart phone.

Yet that same Human is running a company, cutting people open, flying a plane, sueing somebody on behalf of somebody else,...or any of a dozen other things that require more cognitive thought than pushing a button and speaking to a car.

BMW's auto trans equipped cars are faster than the same model equipped with a manual box. Drag cars are faster when you take the driver having to move more than his finger to release the trans brake out of the equation.

The technology that make an ecoboost stunning takes a similarly sized 4 cylinder that was an absolute turd in a Pinto, and triples the power as a result, all while getting significantly better gas mileage, and dramatically reduces its carbon emissions.

None of that came because some engineer decided to stay in his lane, and drive 55.

Time to trade in the flip phones guys.

FoxMustangLvr · Nov 10, 2017

This is kind of a cool gadget and maybe is more beneficial for a track car. For me, I like the fun of "rowing" gears on the street. I bet for many, the first time shifting in to 2nd gear and then in to 3rd gear would actually result in a down shift, lol. It would take some getting used to for sure.

NIKwoaC · Nov 10, 2017

I think it's a really cool idea, but they have doomed themselves to failure at that price point. It's basically the exact same price as a TKO-600. It's obvious they made no effort to reduce costs either, with all those billet parts it looks like it belongs in a 6-figure SEMA car.

imp · Nov 10, 2017

Bullitt347 said:
My son leased a 2014 Focus that had that auto/clutch. After about 12K miles it started acting up. 1 day at the Dealership and it was replaced. No problems after that. I have a 2016 Ecoboost Focus. It does not have that clutch, it has the Stop/Start feature though, which works very well. Seem-less operation. Amazing little engine. 1 liter (62 cid) 3 cylinder...126 HP! That is about 2 HP per cubic inch! Not bad. It gets awesome fuel mileage.

@Bullitt347
2 HP/CU IN was only attainable in the aircraft arena, 50 or so years ago. The Stop/Start feature you mention I have no clue about. Care to help me there? imp

imp · Nov 10, 2017

madmike1157 said:
.........Time to trade in the flip phones guys.

@madmike1157
How amazingly astute is your post! I almost fell out of my chair. I absolutely applaud your knowledge of the subject, and your ability to recite it in words understandable even to me. If only our country had folks like you running it.......
Thank you many times over for taking the time....imp

Adieu · Nov 11, 2017

imp said:
@Bullitt347
2 HP/CU IN was only attainable in the aircraft arena, 50 or so years ago. The Stop/Start feature you mention I have no clue about. Care to help me there? imp

Start/Stop was first used in the European market by several manufacturers as a pollution-reducing and fuel-saving strategy.

Essentially, under a wide range of conditions, when you come to a complete stop for more than a couple of seconds, the engine in the car shuts off, restarting quickly and automatically when the brake is released.

This is accomplished by a variety of strategies including:

-"Mild Hybrid" technology, in which there is an electric motor/generator bolted to the engine like an accessory and with the serpentine belt around it's pulley, as well as a higher-voltage battery somewhere in the car. GM played around with this extensively. Honda dabbled in it as well, but without the belt.

-Using a larger starter with higher torque coupled with a larger battery (frequently an AGM battery, at that) and a battery load/level sensor on one of the terminals (increasingly the negative terminal, which will inevitably lead to more electrical repairs when people used to seeing all sorts of on the positive terminals of modern cars mistakenly hook up jumper cables and jump boxes backwards due to this change). The new 2.7L Ecoboost F150 is among the vehicles employing this strategy.

-Using a larger starter with higher torque coupled with an extra "auxilliary" battery elsewhere in the vehicle (usually the trunk). This is the strategy favored by several German automakers, Mercedes-Benz in particular.

While cars using the various start/stop systems are new, they work great. Once these engines have a couple hundred thousand miles on them, and the starters have been engaged a few thousand times more often than a normal starter, we'll see how they hold up.

Most start/stop systems are very un-intrusive, then there's Ford...
When I pull in through the gate at the shop, I'm supposed to wait until it closes before proceeding. If I haven't remembered to either turn on "Sport", "Max A/C", or just manually turn off Start/Stop, it'll shut the engine off in the middle of me turning my wheels in the anticipated direction I drive once the gate shuts, stopping the steering wheel entirely.

H Pattern Is A Thing Of The Past?

elarm1

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

1990slow50H

Active Member

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

stangboy

Flatfoot

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

imp

Mustang Master

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

imp

Mustang Master

hoopty5.0

mechanicus terribilis

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

NIKwoaC

中國製造

imp

Mustang Master

imp

Mustang Master

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

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H Pattern Is A Thing Of The Past?

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Active Member

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Mustang Master

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

Mustang Master

mechanicus terribilis

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

I love my Pimp

中國製造

Mustang Master

Mustang Master

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

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