HELP, MY REAR GEARS FELL OUT

red390gt · Nov 19, 2006

I am doing a 5 lug conversion on my 85 (it has a 7.5" rear) I pull the rear cover off, removed the pin retainer bolt, and then tried to slide the the pin out, I couldn't get it out the way the axle was positioned so I turned it and was then able to get the big pin out. I then made the mistake of turning the axel so I could easily get to the C-Clip, when I did both of the small gears fell out. Is there an easy was to get those gears back in or do I need to pull the posi unit and put it on my bench to get those gears back in? I tried putting them back in with no luck. Anyone have any pointers for me on how to get the gears back in?

rd · Nov 19, 2006

Can't say I have had them fall out, but they will turn a bit. I have always had to pull them out.

You have to put them in through the opening, and then rotate one sidegear to spin them back to line up with the cross pin.

If you have a traction lok, you may have to pull the spring, reinstall the spiders, and then push the spring back in. That can be a pita.

I have not had a rear out for a year or so, but if there was room for them to rotate out, there should be room, and enough play to go back in.

Prime Lord · Nov 20, 2006

If its a 7.5, its probably not a trac-lok. Red, was it just the 3 gears in the center (one on either side and another on the back)?

If so, just fenagle them back in there. The spider gears aren't that big of a deal and w/o a trac-lok there's nothing to keep them in when you pull the axles out. Get the axle back until its about to go into the diff, swing the spider gear back in and push the axle through it. Its not that big of a deal. G/L dude.

red390gt · Nov 20, 2006

It is a traction lock unit. It's the two small gears that ride on the big pin (the pin that gets removed when taking out the C-Clips).

Prime Lord · Nov 20, 2006

if it was a trac-lok unit, the S spring would have held the 2 spider gears in place when the center pin was removed. ::

bentley429 · Nov 20, 2006

Prime Lord said:
if it was a trac-lok unit, the S spring would have held the 2 spider gears in place when the center pin was removed. ::

Exactly, Iam also confused

red390gt · Nov 20, 2006

bentley429 said:
Exactly, Iam also confused

I guess I'll snap a picture and post it tonight, sounds like I must be wrong and it's not a trak-lok. It does have the S spring, two spider gears and two smaller gears that ride on the big pin (they fell out).

red390gt · Nov 21, 2006

bentley429 said:
Exactly, Iam also confused

OK, so I got back under the car last night and here's what I saw. There is the normal ring and pinion, two spider gears that the axles slide into and then the two smaller gears that ride on the removable pin (these gears are the ones that fell out). The Pin is the one that gets removed when you need to pull the axels, there is also the "S-spring" in the center. I looked in my Ford manual and it shows exactly what I have so my rear is a 7.5" track lok out of an 85 (I think it came out of an SVO), the manual doesn't say anyting about how to put these gears back in. I pulled the center section out of the rear and put it on my bench, still not having any luck getting the two small gears back in. ANYONE have any ideas?

I just got off the phone with a shop I use once in a while when I get in over my head. I started expalining to him what happened and before I finished my sentence he sais "let me guess, the two small gears fell out". He has seen it happen plenty of times and said the unit needs to be fully disassembled to get those gears back in. SO I am going to drop off the center section (trak-Lok) unit to him in the morning. I'll snap some pictures tonight if anyone is interested in seeing exactly what I am reffering to.

Thanks

smokin91' · Nov 21, 2006

Post up a pic id like to see what you are talking about. When removing just the axles no gears should just fall out.

red390gt · Nov 21, 2006

smokin91' said:
Post up a pic id like to see what you are talking about. When removing just the axles no gears should just fall out.

OK, here is three pictues and they didn't just fall out, like I said i made the mistake by turning the axels with the pin removed and the gears walked out.

smokin91' · Nov 21, 2006

I have to remove my axles next week to do my rear disc brake swap, now im worried about this happening to me as I have never removed the axles before.

What is the proper way to remove the axles step by step so this DOESNT happen?

MikeC · Nov 21, 2006

Looks like what you did was remove the center pin and turn the axle(s) with the transmission in gear (driveshaft could not turn), so the diff unit could not turn either. The two spider gears that are still in the diff turned with the axles and since the center pin was not holding them in, the other spider gears out were driven out the side. You don't have to dissassemble or remove the diff from the housing to put them back in.
Here's what you have to do. Put the diff back in the housing. Put the axles back in and turn the diff so the center pin hole is pointing straight out the back. Put the trans in gear so the driveshaft and diff cannot turn. Take one of the spider gears that fell and hold it between the spider gears that are still in the diff, on top toward the front of the car. Hold the other spider gear the same way but in the exactially opposite position of the first gear (bottom, toward the back of the car). Now while holding them in place have a helper slowly turn one of the axles in the forward direction. The side gears will turn and pull the other spider gears back in place. You may have put a wheel back to get leverage to overcome the friction of the Trac-loc. Once they are lined up, put the center pin back in. Don't turn the axle too far or they will come out the other side and you will have to start over. Also, don't pinch your fingers!
I hope this makes sense.
Also you should be able to turn the differential without the spider gears falling out as long as the driveshaft can spin.

MikeC · Nov 21, 2006

smokin91' said:
What is the proper way to remove the axles step by step so this DOESNT happen?

Just do not turn the axles while the driveshaft is locked.

smokin91' · Nov 22, 2006

So basically what you are saying is, leave my 5spd in neutral when i go to take the axles out and there is no way the spiders can fall out EVEN if i was to spin the axles?

Ive never dug into the rear of my car before i just want to make sure ive coverd all my bases before i do and dont end up making something simple into something that i have no clue how to fix.

red390gt · Nov 22, 2006

MikeC said:
Looks like what you did was remove the center pin and turn the axle(s) with the transmission in gear (driveshaft could not turn), so the diff unit could not turn either. The two spider gears that are still in the diff turned with the axles and since the center pin was not holding them in, the other spider gears out were driven out the side. You don't have to dissassemble or remove the diff from the housing to put them back in.
Here's what you have to do. Put the diff back in the housing. Put the axles back in and turn the diff so the center pin hole is pointing straight out the back. Put the trans in gear so the driveshaft and diff cannot turn. Take one of the spider gears that fell and hold it between the spider gears that are still in the diff, on top toward the front of the car. Hold the other spider gear the same way but in the exactially opposite position of the first gear (bottom, toward the back of the car). Now while holding them in place have a helper slowly turn one of the axles in the forward direction. The side gears will turn and pull the other spider gears back in place. You may have put a wheel back to get leverage to overcome the friction of the Trac-loc. Once they are lined up, put the center pin back in. Don't turn the axle too far or they will come out the other side and you will have to start over. Also, don't pinch your fingers!
I hope this makes sense.
Also you should be able to turn the differential without the spider gears falling out as long as the driveshaft can spin.

OK...that sounds like what I did wrong. I have an automatic and reached in through the window to put the car in nuetral but I guess I missed neutral and instead put it in gear. While turning the axel I noticed it seemed hard to turn but for some stupid reason I didn't double check to see if I was in nuetral, big mistake.

I will try your listed method this weekend and will be sure to let you know the outcome. Thanks for your help.

MikeC · Nov 22, 2006

smokin91' said:
So basically what you are saying is, leave my 5spd in neutral when i go to take the axles out and there is no way the spiders can fall out EVEN if i was to spin the axles?

Ive never dug into the rear of my car before i just want to make sure ive coverd all my bases before i do and dont end up making something simple into something that i have no clue how to fix.

Yeah they should not fall out as long as the diff unit can rotate. Once the centerpin is removed, the side spider gears have to rotate for them to fall out. I've had diffs apart multiple times and never had them come out unless I wanted them to come out.

red390gt · Nov 22, 2006

MikeC said:
Yeah they should not fall out as long as the diff unit can rotate. Once the centerpin is removed, the side spider gears have to rotate for them to fall out. I've had diffs apart multiple times and never had them come out unless I wanted them to come out.

The sad thing about this is, I've done at least 6 other 5 lug conversions and never had this proglem, but all the other cars were manual transmissions. This cars auto shifter doesdn't show the correct gear location so I had in in gear instead of nuetral. Live and learn I guess.

Mikie · Nov 22, 2006

Im going to be honest. If you have the unit sitting on the table ( its obvious from the photo ) then you may want to think long and hard about having that shop reinstall everything. Unless you have the tools and knowledge of pinion alignment
Ive even had reputable or so called reputable shops install gears for me and not get them shimmed right and then thats where the fun begins. Whining normally, possible clanking, popping and usually breakage from not properly aligning the ring and pinion.

Just my advice, It may not be worth a hill of beans but I thought I would offer it.
Let us know how it works out.

red390gt · Nov 22, 2006

Mikie said:
Im going to be honest. If you have the unit sitting on the table ( its obvious from the photo ) then you may want to think long and hard about having that shop reinstall everything. Unless you have the tools and knowledge of pinion alignment
Ive even had reputable or so called reputable shops install gears for me and not get them shimmed right and then thats where the fun begins. Whining normally, possible clanking, popping and usually breakage from not properly aligning the ring and pinion.

Just my advice, It may not be worth a hill of beans but I thought I would offer it.
Let us know how it works out.

When I took the rear out I kept track of where each shim (two shims) was and kept them seperate so I couldn't mix them up. As long as I put it back together exactly like I took it apart with the same shim location & size everything SHOULD be as it was before I removed it. We'll see if I'm right later.

smokin91' · Nov 22, 2006

Dont you need a special tool to measure pinion depth and all that other fun stuff?

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