HorsePower

CANTONRACER · Jul 4, 2007

gashog said:
I am eagerly awaiting the release of both the camaro and the challenger. I think i'm the only one who thinks the new camaro looks like ass. The challenger concept looks gorgeous, I hope dodge follows through with it and changes nothing.

Its too bad GM and Chrysler didn't have the balls to produce these cars 3 years ago when the new mustang was born. Ford didn't imitate, they took a chance and hit a home run with the new mustang. Chevy and Dodge HAVE to sell something vastly stronger than the current competition, otherwise no one but the die-hards would buy it.

Ford though, in my opinion has done nothing wrong. Sure the mustang will be underpowered sitting next to a new camaro SS or z28, dollar for dollar though I think you'll get more out of the stang. Just wait for a fully optioned camaro to tip the scales at more than 40k. what self respecting mullet man would drop 40k on a camaro???

my 2 cents.

Balls have nothing to do with their decisions...and the power levels they are going to be at are just an extension from the current GTO's and Vettes.

What do you think a fully loaded Mustang will cost in a few years?

gashog · Jul 5, 2007

CANTONRACER said:
Balls have nothing to do with their decisions...and the power levels they are going to be at are just an extension from the current GTO's and Vettes.

What do you think a fully loaded Mustang will cost in a few years?

Balls have everything to do with it... GM time and time again waits for someone to test the waters and brings something in later. HHR is here because of the success of the PT cruiser, retro camaro is here because of the retro mustang.

I guarantee that a fully optioned mustang won't be as expensive as a fully optioned camaro. Excluding special models of course.

shooterm1 · Jul 5, 2007

re: retro Camerro

gashog said:
Balls have everything to do with it... GM time and time again waits for someone to test the waters and brings something in later. HHR is here because of the success of the PT cruiser, retro camaro is here because of the retro mustang.

I guarantee that a fully optioned mustang won't be as expensive as a fully optioned camaro. Excluding special models of course.

and most importantly, it will have that most critical accessory ....

the blue bow tie

homebrewer · Jul 5, 2007

I'm sure that both the top of the line Camaro (be it SS or Z28.... SS was an appearance package for the most part after all....), or the top of the line Challenger (most likely the SRT8), will be competing with the Shelby GT500. Both will be great cars, well designed, and powerful, and I'll be looking at both of them when they come out.

I'm sure that the "middle of the road" cars from each company will be competing with our standard GT's. Many of the bragging rights from each will compete with the GT500, both in performance and price.

That being said, I'll look at both cars, and seriously consider buying each of them. One thing that will rule out the dodge though..... If the new challenger does not come with a pistol-grip manual shifter, I won't buy it. Similarly for the Camaro, if you can't get a Tic-Toc-Tach... I won't buy it. They were arguably the two coolest options on any muscle car back in the hey-day. It would be a shame to see them left off.....

RhinoGT · Jul 6, 2007

Fordperformance: To answer your question about the shaker 500, just take it in to the dealer and have them replace it. It's common problem with those head units. I had my replaced and it's fine now.

Also, Ford has a v6 out now putting ou 265hp NA, the 3.5. And ford was testing the waters with a survey several months ago to see if a twin turbo, 370hp version would be a viable optional engine as opposed to a 370 hp v8.

rpburnette · Jul 9, 2007

Someone mentioed that they didn't want a grandpa car, but Buick is planning on a new car with a V8 that has around 300Hp and has a 5.7 0-60, didn't say the 1/4 mile time. That is pretty good for a grandpa car.

homebrewer · Jul 9, 2007

rpburnette said:
Someone mentioed that they didn't want a grandpa car, but Buick is planning on a new car with a V8 that has around 300Hp and has a 5.7 0-60, didn't say the 1/4 mile time. That is pretty good for a grandpa car.

Man, If Buick happens to bring back the Grand National, I'd be all over it. I think there would be a tremendous backlash if the new one didn't have a turbo 6, but I'd love to see the sleeper buicks make a return. I don't really see it happening, but I'd love to see the return of the Grand National. Hell, even today, 20 years later, regardless of milage/condition, it's tough to find one for less than $15k around me!

Jenns01TA · Jul 9, 2007

I may not be 65, but if I were in the market for a crossover I would hop into the new Enclave in a heartbeat. WELL EQUIPPED for $36,000 with a nice little 275 HP V6. It may not be a sport car, but in the world of crossovers, if they can market this well, it may steal some much needed business.

If they use a V-8 it will probably be an adaptation of the Rainier's 5.3L Vortec 5300 V8 with their version of DOD good for about 302 hp/330 tq.

PDXStangDude · Jul 10, 2007

Isn't the 5.0 cammer that is going into the Interceptor suppose to hit 400hp?

Would that not be good enough for the GT model in 2009?

Jenns01TA · Jul 11, 2007

PDXStangDude said:
Isn't the 5.0 cammer that is going into the Interceptor suppose to hit 400hp?

Would that not be good enough for the GT model in 2009?

It looks like Ford's 'plan' is to use the new "Boss" engine for the 2010-2011. I am not sure it it will be ready for standard 2009 production. But, it uis rumored to use a 5.8L 355 modular V8 good for 425/425. Acceptable indeed!

I am still unsure if Ford is using SAE J-1349 or J-607 for rating their engines from factory. I'll have to assume the industry standard 1349, so if corrected to 607 we can see an additional 5% after correction...so almost 450HP, which would sit real pretty next to a 2009-2010 Camaro.

The LS2s come from the factory "underrated" by GM. I have seen where the baseline configuration on the LS2 crate engine came in at 400/398 using SAE J-1349. Which although is right in line with the official GM rating, once corrected with 607 the numbers came in 422/418.

Irregardless, all these SAE ratings are as accurate in the end as MPG ratings. LOL. Once dumped into a car with a driver under real world conditions and factors, it is all a crap shoot.

Destiny98 · Jul 12, 2007

First dynos on the '08 Vettes indicate the new 430hp LS3 is underrated as well.

LG Motorsports dyno'd a bone stock 6-speed with ~20 miles on the clock and got 387/377. With LT headers, no cats, and a K&N aircharger the car made 423/426 untuned.

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79300

I guess time will tell if these are "typical" numbers.

01White5spd · Jul 15, 2007

Jenns01TA said:
1. I have to disagree respectfully with this statement. Statistical analysis shows the law of averages hedging this one to larger displacement = lower fuel mileage.

2. 7.0L 2007 Corvette averages 16/26 / 6.0L averages 17/27. This is based on a new, but still "imaginary scenarios" of how we should drive our cars.

I know what you mean. With the exact same engine design larger displacement does lead to more fuel consumtion. It can't be used to compare different engines from different manufacturers. Thats why I have a problem w/ the car magazines using it so much and the europeans using it to tax cars to encourage better fuel economy.
For example the FerrariF430 is rated at 11/16 w/ a 4.3L engine vs the Corvette Z06 7.0L rated at 15/24. Both have similar hp Ratings.
The corvette would have much higher tax and get better fuel mileage which doesn't make sense.

05xgt · Jul 15, 2007

I feel that Ford knowingly under powered the Stang mainly for the reasons of economics. Simply put they sell the car cheaper than the other Brand 'x's therefore having a much higher sales ouput. Now where it becomes interesting and actually quite smart from a sales perspective is in order to gain the power and handling an individual may want to various degrees comes the "After Market Parts Arena". This is where the additional income to make up for a much lower MSRP comes into play. Ford simply thinks, sell low and make it up in the mod parts division.

'13_ImpactBlue_GT · Jul 15, 2007

kooldawg6 said:
"Sad But True"
Sorry, just had to throw that in there 05MGT
One thing about the 95 Z28 is it had a very decent amount of torque. "No replacement for displacement" Had the Mustang ever been mass released with the 351 or the now 5.4...ALL NEW BALLGAME!!!!! It never was, so we have to live with that. Ford hasn't had a huge release of Mustangs comparable to the GM big boys. Mustang won out with the styling, build quality and heritage. However in todays market, it's not uncommon to see the competition out there with at least 400-425 HP on tap available to anybody with the cash(not limited production cars). I believe Ford can AND needs to have the power output near 400 HP for the '09 launch in the base GT. Since now the new Camaro and Challenger have "the look" and will have that much HP and will be reasonabley priced I'm sure, it just may lure many former and future Mustang owners to the "other side". I know I will NEVER buy a GM car, but it sure will be great to have them out and about on the streets.

I would be happy with 350hp and an equal amount of torque

05xgt · Jul 15, 2007

I'm happy with what I have right out the box. HOWEVER, adding to the package is only half the fun and the self gratification of having done it myself is the other half.Besides, when done it will and I stress will be everything and more than any GM or Mopar in a box.

Hoboattacker · Jul 16, 2007

shadowland2000 said:
Like it's any great feat to just keep upping the displacement. I love muscle cars too but at $3 plus for a gallon of fuel, I also want efficiency. The only way fuel prices are ever going to come down is if we stop driving mountains of metal with huge engines.

You serious? LS1's are widely known to get close to 30mpg and they are a 5.7L V8. Displacement has something to do with efficiency, but technology is probably more of a factor. Being able to make a V8 turn into a "V4" based off of throttle position is absolutely amazing to me.

And yeah, when the Camaro comes out I wont rule out trading in the 'Stang for it.

05xgt said:
I'm happy with what I have right out the box. HOWEVER, adding to the package is only half the fun and the self gratification of having done it myself is the other half.Besides, when done it will and I stress will be everything and more than any GM or Mopar in a box.

Yeah, but spend the same amount of time/money on the same exact mods and having close to 600 n/a rwhp instead of close to 500 s/c rwhp is a lot nicer IMO.

If they are anything like the older LS1's, a H/C/I on these cars will make them SCREAM. Add a nice dose of nitrous and these cars can easily be in the 10's. If this new motor is as good as the LS1 or LT1 at handling nitrous, it will take a 150 shot like it's nothing and ask for more day in and day out.

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