You should be fine with the saleen at the stock boost level(4psi). And down the road if you get forged internals you can change the pulley for more boost.Ottawa05Stang said:Hi all,
I've been following this thread with great interest as I was planning to SC my slightly modified 05 (Steeda CAI, under drive pulleys and magno flow exhaust) when the snow melts in the spring and my baby comes out from hibernation. The general consensus is that if I go with a low psi boost twin screw Saleen and end up at 400 to 420 rwhp I'll probably be okay with a stock motor? Or should I look at forged internals for any type of SC install regardless of the power/boost ratio?
One more question, even with a low psi boost am I increasing the compression and by doing so will I be okay with a 94 Octane fuel to meet that increased compression? I know this a newbie question but my knowledge base is firmly locked in the 70"s and I am not knowledgeable enough yet on what the 05's computer can do yet..
Thanks to all and what an interesting thread this has been..
Forged shortblocks typicaly start in the 3k range. The actual stock block is fine,I believe you could get away with running stock crank and forged rods and pistons at that power level. Above that I think you would be looking at forged cranks.GSAgentED said:please excuse the newb question, but how much does a new block go for that could handle say 500+ hp? and is that all you would need or would you need to replace pistons and rods too?
1fastz said:if it never and i mean NEVER sees detonation and you dont hardly drive it hard and it has a realy safe tune I have seen them make almost 500 rwhp reliably .
cleveland said:Though this guy represents "A Respected Tuner", I wouldnt take his word on much for the 05+ GTs.
So many more reputable people have stated that 450rwhp is almost too much, borderline reckless in other words. Controlling detonation is not the key, the Connecting Rods arent strong enough to hold that level of power. A safe tune is not going to add protection against poor metallurgy in these 3v engines.
Some motors may withstand 500rwhp (surely not for a long time), but most will not hold together for long. Try yours out at that level of performance and take the risk and report back. Most people that own these cars cant afford a new engine or attempt to explain to a Ford Service Writer that their engine just blew up all of a sudden for no known reason.
I know you are in the business of making power to the customers who desire it but it would be nice if you shared the concern for a potential customer's engine here on the forums.
I've posted enough already but if you want power I dont suggest anything over 450, back it down to 400-425 to be more on the safe side of things. I dont make money sharing my opinion, I just care for those who represent the hobby.
-Dan
I always thought BHP was brake-horsepower. For some non-intuitive reason brake horsepower is measured at the tailshaft. Flywheel horsepower is called FWHP.cleveland said:for reference I will almost always post rear wheel horsepower numbers
bhp=power at the flywheel
rwhp=power at the rear tires
Dan, sorry but you are so far off base your not even in the same country, lol. Here's my take on it, but it's still far more complex.cleveland said:for reference I will almost always post rear wheel horsepower numbers
bhp=power at the flywheel
rwhp=power at the rear tires
-Dan
300bhp/ton said:lol, it does seem to be an American thing not to understand BHP. Not a dig, but an observation as I have had this discussion twice this week already.
HP or Horse Power is basically the measure. It is an imperial unit, and originated by a horse pulling X weight over Y distance and time. James Watt invented the system to rate his steam engines with. So a 6hp engine would do the work of 6 horses.
There are many types of horse power, some are a measurement and some a calculation. But HOW they are derived is important.
To find out the horse power of an engine we use a 'brake' device, hence the B as this denominates the type of horse power we are referring to.
BHP is a calculated measurement, this is done by measuring torque.
HP = torque (lb ft) x rpm / 5252
So, to mearly state you car has HP is actually very inaccurate. As dyno's, engine and chassis such as Mustang and Dynojet are all BRAKE devices.
Once you have derived the BHP yes you can indicate WHERE the measurement was taken.
Most common is the flywheel, but usually this is not stated on it's own but it IS noted, I'll explain in a bit.
But you could also derive BHP at the propshaft (many boats are), the wheel hubs (such as chassis dyno's like a Rototest Dyno) or indeed at the driven wheels themself.
Thus for the sake of correctness rwhp, should really be rwbhp.
rw = rear wheels, the WHERE
b = brake the type and the HOW
hp = the unit
Now the reason you don't see manufactures claim fwbhp (flywheel), is because they also state SAE Net.
SAE Net is a standard dictated by the Society of Automotive Engineers. This dictates exactly HOW and WHERE the reading should be taken, it also covers such things as engine ancilliary devices, fuel grade, astmospheric conditions and so on.
SAE Net is ALWAYS measured at the flywheel.
So remember, when referring to HP in terms of automotive use, it should ALWAYS be BHP, then any addtions you wish to add, to denominate where the measurement was derived.
As I said there are many types of HP:
ihp - this is indicated HP, and was commonly used in the 19 Century. It is a calculation using cylinder pressure of steam engines. This will give a very different number to that of BHP, yet it is still HP
dbhp - drawbar horsepower. This is for trains as a rule. This is a MEASURED as opposed to a CALCULATED like BHP is. Basically a train pulls a special carriage which meausres the amount of pull. I think this would be intersting for cars to be measured by.
RAC HP - This was used in Britiain in the early 20th Century, it is calculated by measuring the internal dimensions of the engine and certain assumptions of efficency. I think following this logic a ZR1 Corvette would only produce ~120RAC HP
There are also many other types as well. Plus there are metric equiverlents too. A metirc HP is still a horse lifting X weight over Y distance and time. But it uses metres and KG, instead of feet and pounds.
1 Metric HP is slightly smaller than 1 Imperial HP.
Metric HP may still be listed as HP or commonly as PS.
Bascially it all gets rather confusing, and there really is nothing else quite like it.
The closest comparison I can think of is money.
What is $1.00?
Well it would depend on the type of dollar, as Australian, Canadian and American dollars all have different monetary values.
$1.00US has a different value and thus spending power to $1.00Aus eventhough they are both the same physical number.
Edbert said:There's an entire TFH in that question...
I have heard anywhere from 12-25% power loss depending on which transmission/rear-end/brakes/tires/bearings one uses.
There's also an entire school of thought that it is not a percentage. Meaning a 500fwhp motor may loose 100hp or 20% in front of a drivetrain whil a 250hp motor will only lose 80hp which is actually a higher percentage.
Myself, I do not claim to know.
PDXStangDude said:Uhhh.... whats TFH?
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