How to make my stang beat 2005 gt ?

4.6runner · Feb 25, 2008

justinschmidt1 said:
this guy with a 05 5 speed said this:

I went to the Dyno stock and ran 263.67 RWHP 284.31 RWTQ. She was running off the chart rich though. Installed a Steeda CAI, w/ Diablo Predator Tune...played around for a bit....282.67 RWHP 302.40 RWTQ and the A/F is much much better about 12.1

sn95 5 speed is like 3250
05+ 5 speed 3450

200 pounds is a pretty good differance....enought to make up for 30-40 hp I would say.

Im sorry to say it, but 200 pounds is NOT enough to make up for 30-40 horsepower, maybe 10 if youre lucky. If that were the case, you could take out your upholstry and spare tire, run on an empty tank, and run 11s !!!! Also, I have done the pi swap, with ALL the bolt ons, headers, coil packs, wires, tune, gears, intake tb, plenum, pullies........... and these cars are just not as fast as the 3v cars. If you are lucky, the guy you are racing sucks, you'll win. My buddy has an 06 with some bolt-ons, and he walks guys with built 302's that lay down 20 more hp at the wheels. He only makes about 290, but the newer engines are just efficient and fast

CobraRed_96_GT · Feb 25, 2008

It comes down to this guys:

If you own a Mach 1 and come across any 05+ with equal mods and think you're going to win every time: YOU'RE IGNORANT

If you own a 05+ and come across any Mach 1 with equal mods and think you're going to win every time: YOU'RE IGNORANT

If you own a PI swapped/cammed/bolt on SN95 and come across a Mach 1 or 05+ with equal mods and think you're going to win every time: YOU'RE IGNORANT

If you own a 05+ or a Mach 1 and come across a PI swapped/cammed/bolt SN95 and think you're going to win every time: You're warranted in that assumption, but be ready for a race

If any side says something like:

Have a nice daydream about beating one.

Then that's just self-servingly pathetic

CobraRed_96_GT · Feb 25, 2008

4.6runner said:
Im sorry to say it, but 200 pounds is NOT enough to make up for 30-40 horsepower, maybe 10 if youre lucky. If that were the case, you

i agree, 200 lbs doesnt make up for 30-40hp. But 10hp? LOL, i think i'd rather be 600lbs lighter than 30hp more powerful

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 25, 2008

mazen189 said:
alright, excluding warrenties and low milage though. I still think the mach 1 is a better built machine. Would you agree?

Absolutely Not! Other than the desire many have for the DOHC 4V engine and the limited 2-year run that revamps the Mach 1 heritage, the S197 is a better built car all the way across the board than the SN95. Stiffer chassis, better suspension geometry, nicer more refined interior, cleaner more ergonomic design....just plain better.

Anyone choosing the Mach 1 over the S197 for any other reason than the ones I've stated above do so based simply on their visual appeal and personal preference alone and not because it's a better car!

EPIKGT said:
So in other words, Mach 1's suck, & so do all SN95's?

I wouldn't go as far to say they suck, since many of us still love them despite their many design flaws but technically speaking, when it comes right down to it, they are the lesser car by comparison. Just as the Fox is mechanically the lesser car when compared to the SN95.

fobra559 · Feb 26, 2008

TGJ said:
Without asking a tonne of questions, it appears he can't drive worth ****, so you have a good chance of winning.

Well, it was hot and humid that day and was his first time at the strip(butterflys in the stomach lol.) I was just watching and then about a month later i got my car.

CobraRed_96_GT · Feb 26, 2008

Stop talking about build quality and interior comfort people, look at the title of the thread - it's a matter of which is faster, and neither are a definite winner.
I think it's obvious that a newer car should be a better all around car than the same version of the same company's older model, why are we arguing over that?
If Ford put out a model that was inferior than it's previous model they wouldn't be in business and the previous models would almost double in price. Niether have happened.

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 26, 2008

CobraRed_96_GT said:
Stop talking about build quality and interior comfort people, look at the title of the thread - it's a matter of which is faster, and neither are a definite winner.
I think it's obvious that a newer car should be a better all around car than the same version of the same company's older model, why are we arguing over that?
If Ford put out a model that was inferior than it's previous model they wouldn't be in business and the previous models would almost double in price. Niether have happened.

Actually...the thread title indicates a PI swapped pre-99 SN95 car vs. an S197. In which case, lining the two up with equal drivers the S197 will murder the SN95. So I'd say we've got a definite winner. It only recently morphed into a Mach 1 vs. S197 debate. Which in my opinion is a drivers race with the edge going to the Mach 1 regardless which is the better built car.

mransr · Feb 26, 2008

Gearbanger 101 said:
....just plain better.

unfortunately they're just plain bigger too...
and I don't mean just a few hundred pounds heavier either, it's bigger in every dimension than an SN95...the S197 is just a BIG car...

for some people that's an acceptable swap, but it's far too big in my opinion (SN95's are only a little too big ) I think a little less performance and sophistication is a good trade off for a better sized (and dare I say better looking) car...but then I like as little as possible between me and my car

but there is always somebody faster, and they only way to decide who's gunna beat who is to take it to the track... "internet racing" will never prove anything

EPIK · Feb 26, 2008

Unbrdld07 said:
I've been following this thread and have had a few good laughs, but the truth of the matter about "older drivers" is.......#1. We grew up with these types of cars. #2. We know better than to street race a youngster, we don't like to see them wreck from being stupid. 3. We can out drive them all day long and still not get a ticket. 4. Once you've beat a 2000 corvette.......wheres the challenge or fun of having to do more than that???????
Have a nice daydream about beating one.

What do you know about my driving skills or driving record? Im currently on my 4th Mustang & have yet to get a speeding ticket & have 0 accidents? I guess me being 30 years old makes me such an irresponsible kid huh?? U, like alot of the 05+ owners probably just got back into Mustangs when the 05's came out so what do u know??

Im tired of all you guys trying to act like you dont EVER drive fast on the streets!!!!

CobraRed_96_GT · Feb 26, 2008

Gearbanger 101 said:
Actually...the thread title indicates a PI swapped pre-99 SN95 car vs. an S197. In which case, lining the two up with equal drivers the S197 will murder the SN95. So I'd say we've got a definite winner. It only recently morphed into a Mach 1 vs. S197 debate. Which in my opinion is a drivers race with the edge going to the Mach 1 regardless which is the better built car.

yes, that was decided soon enough. But the topic was still which is faster when other cars were brought up like the Mach 1 and a PI swapped/cammed/bolt on GT. So i really don't see why interior and build quality is being talked about unless your talking suspension geometry.

TorqueMonster88 · Feb 26, 2008

OOOOO....getting a little heated now. opcorn:

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 26, 2008

mransr said:
I think a little less performance and sophistication is a good trade off for a better sized (and dare I say better looking) car...but then I like as little as possible between me and my car

Better sized for who? I'm 6'2" and 260lbs. I feel right at home in the cockpit of an S197, where I'm always staring out the top of the windshield tint of an SN95. The longer wider body also ads to the cars stability and handling. I sure don't mind the trade off of a few hundred pounds if it means everything else across the board is improved.

Take the Shelby GT500 for example? Probably the largest and heaviest Factory Mustang ever built, yet arguably the best all around performer of them all. Followed closely by the '03-'04 Cobra which is another heavy weight that outshined the previous model before that. Lets go to the other end of the spectrum. The Mustang II was smallest and lightest of the bunch, so based on that knowledge alone, would you consider it the better performer? You can't let size or weight alone dictate which is the better car.

I'm not saying the S197 is perfect, but as far as shortcomings go, it's got far fewer of them than it's predecessor.

CobraRed_96_GT · Feb 26, 2008

I think Epik, me and Unbrdld07 (or another closer S197) should meet at a track - since we're all much nicer more logical people in person and it'd probably settle a lot.

EPIK · Feb 26, 2008

CobraRed_96_GT said:
I think Epik, me and Unbrdld07 (or another closer S197) should meet at a track - since we're all much nicer more logical people in person and it'd probably settle a lot.

Im with that...

The fact of the matter is, these 05+ owners need to stick to bashing our SN95/new edge/fox chassis mustangs in the 05+ forums....

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 26, 2008

CobraRed_96_GT said:
So i really don't see why interior and build quality is being talked about unless your talking suspension geometry.

My reply was in response to mazen189's statement of the Mach 1 being the "better built machine" (which is why I quoted it). Better built encompasses many factors and areas of the vehicle....not just from a raw performance aspect. If you want to come at it from that angle only, the S197 has already proven the better “performer” being able to out run, out handle and out stop the SN95. Might I add doing so all while carrying a heavier curb weight to boot!

The car itself has been improved from all angles, including build quality and interior ergonomics. Higher build quality attributes the cars over all feel, as does interior improvements like driving/seating position and gauge layout. I really don’t understand why you would leave them out of the mix when an open ended statement like “better built machine is being used as the template for comparison?

EPIKGT said:
The fact of the matter is, these 05+ owners need to stick to bashing our SN95/new edge/fox chassis mustangs in the 05+ forums....

I certainly hope you've not included me amongst the list of the "SN95 bashers". I've stated nothing but fact in my responses. Feel free to point out otherwise if you feel I'm being unfair. I believe I've got a completely unbias opinion when you consider I don't currently own any of those cars.

EPIK · Feb 26, 2008

Gearbanger 101 said:
I certainly hope you've not included me amongst the list of the "SN95 bashers". I've stated nothing but fact in my responses. Feel free to point out otherwise if you feel I'm being unfair. I believe I've got a completely unbias opinion when you consider I don't currently own any of those cars.

No, not you Gearbanger. i actually respect your opinions & statements on this site ALOT... You speak the truth & logic, & you know alot about Mustangs & cars in general....

Im talking about TGJ, & UNBIRDID 07.... 4.6 talk is pretty much the unofficiial 96-04 4.6 Mustang forum on stangnet. They need to stick to bashing our cars in the 05+ Forum...Coming into 4.6 talk & bashing our cars is like going into the 5.0 forums & saying "Fox chassis mustangs, & pushrod motors suck"

mazen189 · Feb 26, 2008

CobraRed_96_GT said:
I think Epik, me and Unbrdld07 (or another closer S197) should meet at a track - since we're all much nicer more logical people in person and it'd probably settle a lot.

yo can i get in that ???
then we'll have all cars across the line.

04GTMustang · Feb 26, 2008

hahahahahahahaha this is what makes stangnet great lol. debates like this we move from performance into quality into interior back to performance then to interior and looks lol. who honestly cares both cars have strong and weak points. I must say though some people on this forum need to do some reading up on the s197s though. the mach is a great car 4vs are awesome i love them wish i had one. but in all honesty id take a 3v over a mach just because its newer technology. i have seen a few 3vs now with full boltons and heads and cams put down 370rwhp. thats pretty impressive considering us 2v guys are making that number on boost.

the 3v has a better computer with better sensors in it that react much faster than our cars.

its a drivers race between the cars and you cannot compare times really either because there are many factors that go into that as well. this debate can go so many ways and it will never come to an agreement or conclusion of which one is better. I havent run my brothers car any better than a 9.2 on the track cause i cant launch it at all. but his first time out when he was bone stock he ran an 8.9 that was his first time ever drag racing and the car was only a few months old.

and then i have seen mach 1 owners out at the track with full exhaust and drag radials with gears running in the 9s as well. its not cause the car sucks its cause the driver needs to learn how to drive that thing.

TGJ · Feb 26, 2008

EPIKGT said:
No, not you Gearbanger. i actually respect your opinions & statements on this site ALOT... You speak the truth & logic, & you know alot about Mustangs & cars in general....

Im talking about TGJ, & UNBIRDID 07.... 4.6 talk is pretty much the unofficiial 96-04 4.6 Mustang forum on stangnet. They need to stick to bashing our cars in the 05+ Forum...Coming into 4.6 talk & bashing our cars is like going into the 5.0 forums & saying "Fox chassis mustangs, & pushrod motors suck"

The ONLY bashing I did was call you out on your street racing comment. Go back and read what I said regarding everything else. In fact, I have included every comment of mine in this post...

Now for the record, I have the most powerful street driven N/A 2V auto equipped car on this site and it may even be the most powerful street driven N/A 2V. I have helped out quite a bit in the 4.6L section, but alright, I shouldn't be in this section any more...

TGJ said:
A Mach 1 is not enough...

I have an 05 GT, I have killed every Mach 1 that has tried it at the track I go to. I haven't seen a Mach 1 run a faster time than it and some of those Mach's have a lot more mods than me. In fact I have killed every type of Mustang from 1979 - 04 except Cobra's. I haven't ran any year Cobra yet.

On a Mustang Dyno, I put down 276 RWHP with just a SLP LM axleback. The 04 GT that followed me had a Magnaflow catback, he put down 235 RWHP. Both of our cars are 5 spd manuals.

My Mustang with a full tank of gas and full weight with no driver weighed 3476 pounds, a little less than a friend's 04 Mach 1.

If you pick on an 05+ where the driver can drive it, a PI headswap and gears won't be enough. Where people can drive the 05 Mustang GT properly, they are low 13 - mid 13 car stock. Like a Mach 1, it doesn't take much to put an 05 GT into the 12's. Be careful in what you bite into...

TGJ said:
1) My 2005 Mustang GT at full weight with a full tank of gas is LIGHTER than my friend's 04 Mach 1 at full weight and a full tank of gas. Neither car had a driver or passenger. Same scale same day...

2) Having seen my friend's Mach 1's dyno and comparing it to mine, the 3V has more power and TQ than the 4V does till 4000 RPM. Coming off the line the 05 Mustang GT has the advantage over a Mach 1.

TGJ said:
This is a signature of a member here at Stangnet that goes to the same track I do who has an 03 Mach 1... Actually I heard he got rid of it but haven't been able to confirm it.

[COLOR = "BLUE"]Nitto's 275/40/17's
Ford Racing 4:30 Gears
PHP Spacer
Hurst Line Lock
DiabloSport Predator
Custom X-pipe
Flowmaster 40 Series
K&N Aircharger (CAI
SS Inserts
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
MGW Accessories
AutoMeter - Air/fuel, Volts, D-Pic
NGK Iridium Spark Plugs
Bullit Fuel Door
Custom Ford Racing Decals
[Best E.T 13.7 at 103 mph with 3:55's in
Best E.T 13.5 at 101mph...with 4:30's in [/COLOR]

Click to expand...

I went 13.68 @ 101 MPH with these mods on my 05 Mustang GT:

SLP LM Axleback
MT ET Street Drag Radial

I never got to run that Mach 1, I didn't see him at the track after I ran that 13.68 in 2006, pity though, I would have liked to have added him to my Mach 1 Kill list.

I am also going to point out, a stock Mach 1 doesn't really have a power advantage until 5800 RPM over a stock 3V and it is not that big. Adding a tune and increase the redline of the 3V 4.6, there is no power advantage of the Mach 1 4.6 4V. The 3V continues to make power until 6500 RPM, just like the mach and it is within 5 HP.

TGJ said:
What about his flash tuner and CAI???

Read it again, he had Nitto Drag Radials. Yeah the Mickey's are better than those but he had them to...

My 13.68 was my best pass of 2006. My best from 2007 is faster and lower than that. My best with my 05 GT is faster than that Mach 1. 2008, I have a really good feeling I will be in the 12's right out of the gate.

TGJ said:
No, we don't. My 05 Mustang has a few more bolt-ons now than it did. Your car has a lot more into than my Mustang. My aspirations for 2008 is an N/A 11 second 2V heavy ass TBird and 12 second minor bolt-on 05 Mustang GT.

TGJ said:
Here is the thing, the track I go to is 1700 - 1800 feet above sea level, will always have at least 60% humidity, and does no track prep. I haven't ran the car on a prepped track yet.

You just can not go and compare how a car ran in Texas to a car that ran in Colorado for example. That is nice that a Mach 1 went 12.9, it probably did it in December, likely Houston because that is a well-prepped track. Now bring that 12.9 Mach up here and see how it does.

I am not saying that the S-197's are faster than the 03 - 04 Mach 1. I have many times stated it is a driver's race between them. I do believe the S-197 has the advantage out of the hole and because of that will likely win more than lose.

TGJ said:
Here is the thing, I have driven my friend's 04 Mach 1, in fact to it's best time to date in the 1/4. It does *feel* faster than the S197 Mustang but running them at the track side by side, I won. If you take the best time I have with his car and compare it to what I ran against him, his car still loses...

TGJ said:
Bolt-on S-197 Mustang GT VS Bolt on Mach 1.

This is not my car, but a video I know of.

TGJ said:
Sounds like the 05+ Drivers around you actually have some brains and don't want to street race...

Well done to them...

TGJ said:
I would disagree. The Mach 1 has every flaw that the SN95 platform had. I seriously was looking at buying an 04 Mach 1 new. I liked the S197 concept and waited for one and glad I did. Since then, I seriously looked into getting a used 04 Mach 1 to add to the collection. Having looked at a few Mach 1's, I have decided that when I add a 4V to my collection, it won't be a SN95 platform vehicle unless it is a Terminator. The SN95 platform is ancient compared to the S197...

TGJ said:
Depends on how you look at it.

TGJ said:
If he knows how to drive and has traction, you will lose quite badly...

TGJ said:
Without asking a tonne of questions, it appears he can't drive worth ****, so you have a good chance of winning.

Now, here is everyone of your posts...

EPIKGT said:
Screw a vette...Buy a Mach 1 & u wont have any problems

EPIKGT said:
come out here & try to add me to your Mach 1 kill list.... So u went 13.68 with exhaust & drag radials....Ive only ran at the track once in my life & my car went 13.78 @ 103, with a horrible 2.2 60ft... & That was on close to bald street tires, with the only mods being a catted h, catback, & c&l maf... Plus like you say, my car is heavier, especially with 18x10" wheels & a bunch of road race suspension that doesnt even help @ the track??? U tell me how your car is so much faster than mine???

Check the Mach1registry 1/4 mile list...There is a mach with nothing but drag radials that ran 12.9@106, & alot that have ran similar times with DR's & exhaust only???

I appologize if maybe my initial comment was misworded, I probably should of said "you will stand a great chance if u buy a Mach 1"... I actually respect the S197's alot, they make great power, but they arent hands down faster than 03-04 Mach's....

I plan on hitting the track alot more down the road when i get some drag radials & a better tune, but Im very confident that with my current mods I can run low 13's, high 12's....

EPIKGT said:
Sorry to say, but that dyno was calibrated wrong, or those are uncorrected numbers? your car is only rated @ 305hp @ the crank stock? For it to put down 320RWHP stock, it would have to put down over 350-360hp @ the crank.....

EPIKGT said:
Here's an excerpt of the list of the best N/A Mach's in the country along with the mods that they have.... I got all this from the Mach1registry.com

EPIKGT said:
Your not cheating at all imo...If anything, its an unfair race being that a stock 96-97 is rated at 215 hp @ the crank, & an 05+ is rated @ 300hp @ the crank. How is that fair?? & we all know about the NPI's shortcomings from the factory like the 215hp really being more like 195hp....Your cams & bolt ons are fair game IMO being that even with a PI swap, you are still down by 35 hp if you go stock for stock ratings.... n/a vs. n/a is all fair game imo.....

So your thinking about longtubes now???

EPIKGT said:
Your new combo sounds pretty nasty & efficient. If your cams are smog legal u shouldnt have any problems passing smog with LT's as long as you run high flow cats... i am anxious to see the outcome of your car. When u expecting to have it done?

So what do the 05+ stangs ACTUALLY weigh, because I keep hearing different answers? By looking at them, they look alot bulkier & heavier than my Mach 1, & ALOT heavier than your 96...

EPIKGT said:
Yup!!! & Im just a dumb punk kid who runs around wanting to street race every 05+ stang I see...

EPIKGT said:
LOL!!! Your probably right.

Im actually thinking about taking a trip to Sac raceway this saturday. I will be borrowing my buddies Nitto drag radials, so we will see if i can get into the 12's, which my car should easily do with my current mods, it just depends on my driving....I just hope I dont blow out my poly bushings on my LCA's this time. Im supposed to be swapping in my XD LCA's soon, but they are for coilovers only since they dont have spring perches & I cant install my rear coilovers until I do the tq arm, which keeps getting put off because other things come up.....

EPIKGT said:
Remember though, 05+ GT's beat Mach 1's all day!!! LOL!!! Its all in good fun, thats all....

EPIKGT said:

EPIKGT said:
So in other words, Mach 1's suck, & so do all SN95's?

EPIKGT said:
What do you know about my driving skills or driving record? Im currently on my 4th Mustang & have yet to get a speeding ticket & have 0 accidents? I guess me being 30 years old makes me such an irresponsible kid huh?? U, like alot of the 05+ owners probably just got back into Mustangs when the 05's came out so what do u know??

Im tired of all you guys trying to act like you dont EVER drive fast on the streets!!!!

EPIKGT said:
Im with that...

The fact of the matter is, these 05+ owners need to stick to bashing our SN95/new edge/fox chassis mustangs in the 05+ forums....

EPIKGT said:
No, not you Gearbanger. i actually respect your opinions & statements on this site ALOT... You speak the truth & logic, & you know alot about Mustangs & cars in general....

Im talking about TGJ, & UNBIRDID 07.... 4.6 talk is pretty much the unofficiial 96-04 4.6 Mustang forum on stangnet. They need to stick to bashing our cars in the 05+ Forum...Coming into 4.6 talk & bashing our cars is like going into the 5.0 forums & saying "Fox chassis mustangs, & pushrod motors suck"

You tell me who is doing all the bashing... I don't know where you get off complaining about me. You don't belong in the 4.6L section either... You have a 95 and a Mach 1, you should be hanging out in the Mach section and either 5.0L or V6 section( Whatever your 95 has ) of the boards...

justinschmidt1 · Feb 26, 2008

4.6runner said:
Im sorry to say it, but 200 pounds is NOT enough to make up for 30-40 horsepower, maybe 10 if youre lucky. If that were the case, you could take out your upholstry and spare tire, run on an empty tank, and run 11s !!!! Also, I have done the pi swap, with ALL the bolt ons, headers, coil packs, wires, tune, gears, intake tb, plenum, pullies........... and these cars are just not as fast as the 3v cars. If you are lucky, the guy you are racing sucks, you'll win. My buddy has an 06 with some bolt-ons, and he walks guys with built 302's that lay down 20 more hp at the wheels. He only makes about 290, but the newer engines are just efficient and fast

whoa...calm down big guy!.

Every car will react differant but for example

evo x ran 13.4 at 103 290hp and 290 tq
evo ix ran 14.0 at 97 with 300 hp and 300tq

so the old one ran .6 faster and trapped like 5-6 mph more with 10 less hp and 10 less tq?

you know why?

330 lbs weight differance.

200lbs is a good amount of weight and I would bet you could shave off .3-.4 tenths with 200 lbs.

or make up for 30-40 hp.

remove your head from your ass

"If that were the case, you could take out your upholstry and spare tire, run on an empty tank, and run 11s !!!! "

removing 15 lbs from the trunk and like 100 pounds of upholstery + running a little bit of gas will have a little effect.

Probably knock off a couple tenths if you were running 1/4 tank compared to a full tank and no upholstery/sparte tire.

explain to me how like 150 pounds makes a 14 second car run 11s?

How to make my stang beat 2005 gt ?

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