How to test fuel pump if car wont start?

[teamgs]

Greetings,
I posted earlier about my car dying while on the freeway, and I suspect it may be the fuel sytem, whether the relay or pump. If I turn the key to on, but don't crank the car, I hear the pump do it's 2 second thing, but when I then depress the schrader valve, there is virtually no presure release.
I am not sure how to go about testing the regulator and pump, if the car won't turn over. Any suggestions? I am stuck at the house right now, as my wife has the other car!

Regards,

Gary

 

[wytstang]

Get a fuel pressure gauge that will tell you weather the pump is holding pressure or not.

 

[teamgs]

Thanks, but I can't leave, as I don't have a car. I guess I am curious if the fact that no pressure releases when I depress the schrader valve is indicative of the pump or regulator being faulty. Another question: Don't you have to be running the car to use the pressure gauge?

Regards,

Gary

 

[Swarzkopf]

No, the car does not have to be running. You can attach the gauge to the test port while the car is off. Then, turn the key to the ready position and let the fuel pump charge the system. Now go check the gauge.

 

[teamgs]

Thanks! If I just "primed" the pump, then depressed the schrader valve, nothing spewed out; no pressure. If I short the FP test lead, I can make the pump run continously, and I get some fuel spraying out when I depress the valve, though it doesn't seem to be under much pressure. I can also hear the regulator letting fuel in and out of the system. I don't have an FP guage, and my tire guage won't go down far enough to depress the Fuel System Schrader valve.

Since I am getting some fuel, I am curious why the car won't even sputter when turning over.

I am trying to test the coil for spark, and am getting none, but I am not sure if I am doing it right, as I don't have a spark tester.

I took a spark plug, and placed it in the coil wire nipple, then grounded the plug. I get no spark from the plug. Is this a correct method to test the coil?

Regards,

Gary

 

[final5-0]

Thanks! If I just "primed" the pump, then depressed the schrader valve, nothing spewed out; no pressure. If I short the FP test lead, I can make the pump run continously, and I get some fuel spraying out when I depress the valve, though it doesn't seem to be under much pressure. I can also hear the regulator letting fuel in and out of the system. I don't have an FP guage, and my tire guage won't go down far enough to depress the Fuel System Schrader valve.

Since I am getting some fuel, I am curious why the car won't even sputter when turning over.

I am trying to test the coil for spark, and am getting none, but I am not sure if I am doing it right, as I don't have a spark tester.

I took a spark plug, and placed it in the coil wire nipple, then grounded the plug. I get no spark from the plug. Is this a correct method to test the coil?

Regards,

Gary

Gary

I'm with you on the no squirting suspision.

Don't really need a gauge to tell you what you already know.

Sounds like you are not getting the normal amount of fuel delivery to the rails. A few things that comes to mind at this moment are:

Weak pump
Clogged filter
Faulty regulator
Line restriction

Hope you don't have too tough of a time finding the prob!

Later
Grady

 

[mo_dingo]

The most simple way to test the coil is to simply remove the coil wire from the top of the distributor, and hold it near the nipple, without touching it. As close as you can.

Have someone else crank the car. If the spark arcs across, then your coil is likely working.

Next, reconnect the coil wire, then remove the most accessable spark plug wire from a spark plug, and hold it as close as possible to the spark plug. Have someone crank the car; It it arcs, it's likely that the ignition system is working.

First do the following. Check the codes (KOEO stored codes), remove all 8 spark plugs, and individually note each ones condition and location.

Get a fuel pressure tester, and test the fuel pressure. Hook it up to the schrader valve, and have someone crank the car. It should hold a decent pressure.

If you simply "prime" the pump, and then check the pressure, you will not get an accurate reading. Do like I said before, or else you will be simply speculating & possibly replacing something that is working just fine.
Scott

 

[HISSIN50]

The most simple way to test the coil is to simply remove the coil wire from the top of the distributor, and hold it near the nipple, without touching it. As close as you can.

Have someone else crank the car. If the spark arcs across, then your coil is likely working.

Next, reconnect the coil wire, then remove the most accessable spark plug wire from a spark plug, and hold it as close as possible to the spark plug. Have someone crank the car; It it arcs, it's likely that the ignition system is working.


Scott

hey bud. nice list.

to add to a simpler way of checking spark: stick an extra plug in whatever wire you are removing. ground the threads of the plug on the intake. then crank away - you can do it by yourself pretty easy and dont have to wonder if the air gap is too small or large. just watch the plug gap for spark.

 

[teamgs]

Thanks All!

O.K, I just finished for the night, and no luck! Went out and bought a fuel filter (Not installed yet), fuel pressure gauge, coil, and ICM. When I shorted on the FP, the pressure was 40 psi, but as soon as I shut off the pump, it dropped to zero. This tells me that I have either a bad regulator or bad check valve in the pump.

However, I also don't appear to be getting any spark, so I replaced both the ICM and coil, but still no luck. I checked the fuses, and they all appeared OK. The resistance in the coil wire was 3800 Ohm.

I don't have a spark tester, so I tried both putting a grounded spark plug in the coil nipple and cranking the car and putting a probe in a spark plug wire nipple and cranking to see if the spark shorted to the chassis. Neither made any spark. The rotor and cap are about 2 months old.

I am at a loss right now, and am seriously thinking about having it towed to a shop.

Any ideas to try?

Regards,

Gary

 

[HISSIN50]

Thanks All!

O.K, I just finished for the night, and no luck! Went out and bought a fuel filter (Not installed yet), fuel pressure gauge, coil, and ICM. When I shorted on the FP, the pressure was 40 psi, but as soon as I shut off the pump, it dropped to zero. This tells me that I have either a bad regulator or bad check valve in the pump.

However, I also don't appear to be getting any spark, so I replaced both the ICM and coil, but still no luck. I checked the fuses, and they all appeared OK. The resistance in the coil wire was 3800 Ohm.

Gary

Gary, do you have an aftermarket FP regulator? many of them tend to bleed off pressure very quickly. i am with you - that does not sound like the problem (or the biggest problem. LOL). one can carefully crimp the return line to see if the check valve or reg went south (future reference).

i like to start at the coil and go backwards (upstream). happen to have a spare coil around? buddy with a stang that you can swap coils with? i would check out the coil, PIP (car does not start at all, right?), and then TFI - probably in that order based upon what you have said.

good luck Gary.

 

[teamgs]

Thanks for the tips! BTW, I just put in a new coil and ICM(TFI).

I pulled the codes, and there were no 2 digit codes, but the three digit codes were 186 and 211.

What the heck is the Profile Ignition Pickup circuit anyway?

Regards,

Gary

 

[wytstang]

Thanks for the tips! BTW, I just put in a new coil and ICM(TFI).

I pulled the codes, and there were no 2 digit codes, but the three digit codes were 186 and 211.

Code 186=Injector pulse width longer than expected
Code 211=Two or more successive erratic Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) pulses occurred, resulting in a possible engine miss or stall.

Hope this helps.

 

[teamgs]

Thanks Wystang, but I knew what the codes were, I just didn't know what the PIP circuit was.

I do appreciate all the help!

Regards,

Gary

 

[HISSIN50]

the PIP is inside the dizzy bowl. it is what tells the puter when to fire what cylinder. one has to pull the dizzy and pull the shaft to get to the PIP. it is hit or miss as to whether it buttons back up easily or fights you (the alignment can be a pain). some choose to get a new dizzy instead. i would, of course, troubleshoot further before deciding that is the definate cause.
i had a feeling on that (see my above post; your symptoms fit).

you should have 3 digit codes, as i recall (SN's have 3, foxes 2).

injector pulsewidth is weird. i would assume that pressure was lacking, so the pulsewidth opened up (more duty cycle).

good luck.

 

[mo_dingo]

the PIP is inside the dizzy bowl. it is what tells the puter when to fire what cylinder. one has to pull the dizzy and pull the shaft to get to the PIP. it is hit or miss as to whether it buttons back up easily or fights you (the alignment can be a pain). some choose to get a new dizzy instead. i would, of course, troubleshoot further before deciding that is the definate cause.
i had a feeling on that (see my above post; your symptoms fit).

you should have 3 digit codes, as i recall (SN's have 3, foxes 2).

injector pulsewidth is weird. i would assume that pressure was lacking, so the pulsewidth opened up (more duty cycle).

good luck.

Yep, PIP = profile ignition pickup, or a.k.a. ignition module. You need to yank the dist. to get it out. You will have a fun time getting it out too. There is a special tool made to make removal/replacement easier.

Sounds like you have found the problem. I would take back all that crap you bought, and have autozone test your ignition module, or just replace it.

Yup, we ONLY have 3 digit codes.

Excessive pulsewidth means that the computer had to add excessive fuel to compensate for something. My guess is the O2 sensors indicated lean, and the computer had to add to much fuel to get a 14.7 a/f ratio, so it spit out that code.

But start with the module first. Sometimes these codes are interrelated, and fixing one may cure another, or one code may have been stored for a long time without realizing it.

Unfortunately, we do not have the type of fuel lines that can be pinched to check the FPR. They are thick plastic & if you try to pinch them, they will likely break.

Maybe someone else in here can point out an alterior method of testing the FPR. Pinch the line near the gas tank maybe???? Maybe extend the fuel lines with some rubber hose, and use that as your tester. THey are a PITA to remove from the fuel rails.
Scott

 

[teamgs]

Thanks for all the help! Turns out it probably was just the PIP, but I replaced the entire distributor, as I was running out of time. (It's my daily driver, and I already burned 1.5 vacation days! ) I went ahead and kept the ICM since they tend to go out, and my car has 220K miles, and kept the coil, as my original ones' electrode was burned and pitted. I am still having a FP issue, as the pressure builds, but drops instantly when the car shuts off. I will test it some more soon, but at least I am back on the road again! WOOT!

Regards,

Gary